[CALL TO ORDER]
[MINUTES]
[PLATS]
[ZONING]
[00:12:48]
>>> THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE BASEBALL FIELD. HOW DO YOU GET TO THAT?
[00:12:53]
>>> I WILL HAVE TO LEAVE THAT UP TO HARDIN SIMMONS TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY WILL ROUTE THE CAMPUS
[00:12:58]
TRAFFIC INTERNALLY. I WOULD IMAGINE THEY WILL PROBABLY NOT HAVE ALL THESEGATES CLOSE THE ALL THE TIME, WILL BE MY GUESS. >>> I GUESS YOU CAN --
>>> I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FOOTBALL DAYS WILL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT SOME KIND OF SYSTEM TO OPEN THE GATES TO ALLOW PUBLIC GATES TO THE PARKING THERE ON SIMMONS STREET.
>>> I GUESS YOU CAN STILL COME OFF OF AMBER, DOWN CEDAR AND GET BACK THERE?
>>> YES, AND AGAIN, THE INTENTION IS TO NOT REMOVE THE STREETS.
THE STREETS ARE INTENDED TO STAY. THEY JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO
BETTER CONTROL -- >>> I HAVE ONE OF THE PROPOSED IMAGES OF CEDAR AND AM BLER HAVING A GRE GATE AND THE ONLY Y TO GET ON CAMPUS IS OFF OF HICKORY?
>>> YOU STILL HAVE THE MAIN ENTRANCE RIGHT THERE ON AMBLER THAT IS NOT
[00:16:04]
>>> >>> FOR THE RESTAURANT. WHEN IT GOES.
SO, THEY DID NOT KNOW OF ANY OBJECTIONS THERE. THE INTENTION WILL BE TO KEEP ANY GATES BACK BEHIND THE LOT. IF THEY DID CHOOSE TO COME IN OFF OF SIMMONS THEY STILL HAVE
THAT OPTION. >>> SO, FLIPPING FROM THE NORTH SIDE THERE, OVER TOWARDS SIMMONS, HOW MANY -- WHAT LOTS IS HARDIN SIMMONS OWN OVER THERE?
>>WITHOUT LOOKING I WOULD, I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE EXACTLY.
>>> YOU ARE THINKING BLUE? >>EVERYTHING IN BLUE, I BELIEVE, THEY OWN CURRENTLY.
SEVERAL OF THOSE LOTS THAT ARE SHOWING UP ON THE EAST SIDE OF BEECH, OR THE WEST SIDE OF BEECH STREET THEY OWN. I BELIEVE THEY OWN ALL OF THE HOUSES BACK TO WHERE THAT SECTION OF BEECH STREET, RUNS NORTH OFF OF UNIVERSITY? IF YOU KIND OF DRAW A LINE STRAIGHT FROM THERE, SOUTH, GENERALLY THEY OWN ALL THE HOUSES TO THE WEST, SORRY, TO
THE EAST OF THAT. >>> ALL BETWEEN BEECH AND SIMMONS?
>>> YEAH. THEY ARE ACTIVELY PURSUING PURCHASING SEVERAL OTHERS IN
THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS AS WELL AS THEY BECOME AVAILABLE. >>> ALL OF THE VACANT LAND THAT
IS OVER THERE, IS CURRENTLY OWNED BY HARDIN SIMMONS. >>> SO, MAYBE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. SO, HARDIN SIMMONS OWNS EVERYTHING BETWEEN BEECH AND
SIMMONS? >>YES. FOR THE MOST PART.
THAT LINE IS NOT A STRAIGHT LINE. IT KIND OF -- THE LOT LINES FOR
THE HOUSES DO NOT LINE UP. >>> LET ME ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION.
THERE IS 24, 66, TO 2410, THOSE LOTS, FRONT, OR COULD FRONT SIMMON, 2434 TO 2466 FRONT SIMMONS AND I'M HAVING A REAL HARD TIME, IF HARDIN SIMMONS DOESN'T OWN THOSE, SHUTTING DOWN
A THROUGH STREET IF HARDIN SIMMONS DOESN'T OWN THE LOTS. >>> THEY WILL EXTEND THE
UNIVERSITY AND EXTEND OVER SO THEY HAVE A WAY OUT. >>> , YEAH I UNDERSTAND THAT.
BUT THAT IS NOT HERE IN THIS DISCUSSION. >>> IT NEEDS TO BE.
I GUESS IT TECHNICALLY WOULD BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION BUT IT IS PART OF THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE THAT IS, PLANS FOR THAT ROAD HAVE ALREADY BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE CITY AND THEY ARE PLANNING ON DOING IT WITH THE DORMITORY PROJECT THAT IS RUNNING CONCURRENT TO THIS.
SO BACK TO MY QUESTION, HARDIN SIMMONS -- >>> THEY OWN -- I DO NOT KNOW, EXCUSE ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHICH ONES THEY OWN EXACTLY.
THEY OWN SEVERAL OF THOSE ALREADY. THE TWO RIGHT, 2410, AND 2426, I DO NOT BELIEVE THEY OWN, BUT I BELIEVE THEY ARE SUPPOSEDLY LEFT SIDE WILLED THE HOUSES.
>>> THEY HAVE LIFE ESTATES SO ONCE THE PERSON PASSES IT GOES TO HARDIN SIMMONS?
>>YES, YES. SO IT IS NOT UNREASONABLE TO BELIEVE THEY WILL HAVE OWNERSHIP OF ALL OF THAT LAND HERE WITHIN THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS. I THINK EVERYTHING UP IN THE
BLUE IS ALL PARKING RIGHT NOW. >>> IS THERE A REASON THE ABANDONMENT HAS TO BE APPROVED BEFORE THE NEW UNIVERSITY ROAD ALTERNATIVE, IS THERE A STAGING OR TIMING STANDPOINT?
ON THE SIMMONS UNTIL THERE IS AND ALTERNATIVE -- >>> PART OF IT IS, IF WE CAN GET THE ABANDONMENT WE CAN DO THE REPLATES ALL AT ONCE AND CLEAN IT ALL UP AT ONE TIME.
[00:20:07]
>>> DO WE HAVE THE REPLAT? THAT EXHIBIT? >>NO, IT HAS NOT BEEN SUBMITTED
YET. >>> OKAY. NORMALLY I WOULD DO THAT AS SOON AS WE GOT THROUGH THIS ZONE PROGRESS SAYS WITH THE PLAT FOLLOWING IT.
OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE FOR B.J.? THANK, B.J.
>>> UH-HMM. THANKS. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS ZONING CASE OR THESE FORECLOSURES? I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
YOU KNOW, CLINT, SORRY, THERE IS -- MA'AM, DID YOU WANT TO SPEAK?
>>> OKAY. I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. YOU CAN COME UP.
SORRY ABOUT THAT. >>> IT IS ALL RIGHT. IT IS NOT REALLY IMPORTANT.
>>> COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. PI DON'T LIVE WITHIN 200 FEET I LIVE A COUPLE BLOCKS DOWN, 2810 CEDAR STREET, AND IT JUST -- IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE TAKING OVER THE WHOLE PART OF THE COUNTRY, AND THAT I KNOW OF, OF COURSE, I DON'T -- YOU KNOW, I HAVE LIVED THERE FOR A LONG TIME. MY MOTHER BOUGHT KNIT 78 AND WE HAVE BEEN THERE EVER SINCE, AND WE HAVE GONE DOWN THAT STREET FOREVER.
THAT IS HOW I GET TO AMBLER, AND I JUST HATE THAT IT IS HAPPENING BECAUSE I LOVE DRIVING THROUGH THERE AND I'M ALWAYS POLITE AND CAREFUL, I DRIVE 15 MILES PER HOUR I HAVE NEVER SEEN A PROBLEM. OR HEARD OF ONE. AROUND I TALKED TO THE SECURITY MEN, THEY ARE SO NICE, THEY COME UP AND PATROL OUR STREET, YOU KNOW, AND I HAVE ASKED THEM.
I SAID Y'ALL EVER HAVE ANY TROUBLE FROM TRAFFIC THROUGH THE COLLEGE? AND HE GOES NO, NOT MUCH. I JUST DON'T SEE WHY IT IS NECESSARY.
I SEE WHY THEY WANT IT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT, GOSH THAT IS CHANGING OUR WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND ONCE THEY BUILT THAT WAL-MART, SIMMONS IS THE BEST WAY TO TWO DOWN THERE. OF COURSE, VOGEL AND ALL THAT IS ALREADY PRETTY MUCH A CLOSED AREA TO HARDIN SIMMONS BUT IT IS GOING TO BE A CHANGE, AND A LOT OF US ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.
BUT WE WERE NOT INCLUDED BECAUSE WE ARE FURTHER ON. >>> RIGHT.
>>> SO I JUST WANTED TO VOICE MY OPINION. >>> JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT
WITHIN 200 FEET DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COME TALK. >>> THAT IS WHY I'M HERE.
>>> I WOULD SAY THE SAME TO YOUR NEIGHBORS IF THIS GOES DOWN SILL, THEN FEEL FREE TO, YEAH, BECAUSE IF IT IS A THROUGH STREET THAT AFFECTS WHERE YOU LIVE, YOU SHOULD COME TALK ABOUT
IT. >>> IT DEFINITELY WILL. IT WILL CHANGE.
I MEAN I HARDLY EVER GO TO PINE OR GRAPE AND I GO TO AMBLER AND CUT ACROSS WHERE I NEED TO GO YOU BUT IT WILL BE A PLACE TO GET USED TO NEW HABITS. ANYWAY.
>>> YOU GAVE YOUR ADDRESS AS 2810 CEDAR. >>> YES, I WROTE IT ON THE
SIGN-IN SHEET,. >>> GIVE US YOUR NAME. >>> SARA ADDCOCK.
>>> BEFORE WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING IS THERE ANY COMMENTS SUBMITTED (^) ON THE RED, THE
OBJECTION DOT? OR WAS IT JUST -- >>> THERE WAS A LETTER, BUT WE RECEIVED IT JUST TODAY, OR SOMETIME OVER THE WEEKEND, AND I DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO INCLUDE IT
WITHIN THIS PACKET. >>> WHAT DID IT SAY? >>THERE WERE MOSTLY CONCERNS ABOUT HAVING TO CUT THROUGH UNIVERSITY, AS OPPOSED TO A STRAIGHT SHOT DOWN TO AMBLER.
>>> GO BACK, I THINK THE DOT SHOWED UP ON THERE, DIDN'T IT? YEAH, OKAY.
THANK YOU. WOULD ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK TO US? JUST, ALSO, WANTED -- I DIDN'T MENTION IT A MOMENT ABOUT. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE NEW DORMITORY PROJECT THEY ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF DOING RIGHT NOW. WHICH WE HAVE ALREADY TURNED IN THE SITE PLAN FOR. IT IS GOING RIGHT THERE ON THE CORNER OF AMBLER AND SIMMONS STREET. THE PARKING FOR THAT DORM IS GOING TO BE UTILIZED ON ALL THAT EXISTING PARK AND THEY HAVE OVER THERE ON THE WEST SIDE OF SIMMONS STREET AND THERE A VEHICLE -- PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC, AND THERE IS NO GOING IN --
>>> THAT IS LARGELY THE CATALYST OF YOU DRIVING ALL OF THIS. >>> I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC
[00:25:01]
HEARING, I WILL TALK ABOUT >> I THINK THEY ARE TRYING TO CLOSE IT AND PROTECT IT.
ANT I HAVEN'T HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH ANYBODY, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO. SO, I WOULD, GENERALLY, BE IN FAVOR -- I DON'T -- I'M SURE THEY ARE, A AS A FORMER UNIVERSITY STAFF PERSON I'M SURE THEIR STAFF WILL NOT LOVE HAVING TO FIND NEW BAYS TO PARK AND GET ON CAMPUS AND ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS BUT I WOULD GENERALLY BE IN FAVOR OF THE, OF THE REALLY BOTH, BOTH CLOSURES, BUT I UNDERSTAND TAKING THEM IN PARTS
SO CERTAINLY THE NORTH CLOSURE. >>> >> YEAH, I THINK THE NORTH CLOSURES AND CEDAR AND HICKORY, I DON'T KNOW THE EXTENT OF TRAFFIC COMING FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOWN TO VOGEL TO GET OVER TO PINE. IT IS PROBABLY PRETTY LIMITED.
IT SEEMS NOT AS BIG AND ISSUE -- AND GENERALLY THEY ARE CRITICAL TO THE CAMPUS T. ONE ALONG SIMMONS FEELS MORE EXTERNAL AT THE MOMENT, AS HARDIN SIMMONS CONTINUES TO PURCHASE PROPERTY
IT IS GOING TO BE AND INTERIOR STREET, AND -- >> RICH, YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT
ON THE NORTH ON VOGEL? >> I THIN I'M MORE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT ONE THAN I AM ON THE ONE ON THE SOUTH. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE HARDIN SIMMONS OWNS ALL THE LOTS ON THE WEST SIDE OF SIMMONS MOST OF THEM, BUT ACROSS A COUPLE OF THEM.
SO, AFTER TALKING ABOUT AND MOVING OVER TO SIMMONS AND TALKING ABOUT THAT, I MEAN WE CAN ALL SEE WHAT THE THE ISSUES ARE, THAT IS THE ONE I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WITH IS CLOSING OR ABANDONING SIMMONS IN THERE, WITHOUT, WITHOUT SOME OTHER MECHANISM.
WE DON'T SEE A MECHANISM SO THERE IS NOTHING PLATTED OR NOTHING THAT SAYS THAT THEY HAVE TO DO THAT. AND SO, I'M NOT SURE WHAT -- RANDY, DO YOU HAVE SOME
SUGGESTIONS WHAT OUR OPTIONS MIGHT BE? >> THE WAY THE CONDITIONS ARE SET UP, IT IS A THREE. THREE-PRONGEDPROCESS, ONE YOU AO ABANDON THE STREETS AND SAY YOU DO AND THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVES THEN THEY WOULD COME IN AND BRING IN CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS FOR THE GATES, AND ANY TURN AROUNDS AND SIGNAGE OR REFLECTION TAPE, AND STREET LIGHTING AND NECESSARY TO ELIMINATE THE GATES, SO, TRAFFIC KNOWS HOW TO MANEUVER THROUGH THERE, WOULD BE SUBMITTED, SO THAT IS -- THAT IS CONDITION NO. 4, I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE A DESIGN YET FOR ANY OF THIS STUFF, LIKE B.J. SAID. IT IS PREMATURE FOR THEM TO GET THAT FAR. SO, THAT -- SO STEP 2 IS DESIGN THE GATES AND STEP 3 IS TO PLAT IT. IF YOU AGREE TO ABANDON THESE RIGHT OF WAYS THE CITY COUNCIL
[00:30:04]
CONCURS WITH THE RECOMMENDATION THEY HAVE TO PROVE IT ALL OUT WITH THEIR PLAT, AND IF THE PLATS DON'T SUCCEED THEN ANY ACTION YOU TAKE AND THE CITY COUNCIL TAKES TO ABANDON THE RIGHTS OF WAYS IS FOR NAUGHT. SO, IT IS REALLY A THREE-STEP PROCESS.WE NEED TO SAY, OKAY, WE NEED TO ABANDON AND THEN WE SEE THE DESIGN DETAILS FOR THE GATES AND DETAILS FOR THE PLATS. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THERE ARE PIECES OF WHAT IS SHOWN ON THE EXHIBIT ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF SIMMONS AND AMBER THAT THAT PIECE CANNOT BE ABANDONED AS SHOWN ON THE EXHIBIT. I THINK WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE THE FINE DETAILS TO THE DESIGN PROCESS OF THE GATE DETAILS AND THE FINAL PLAT. IF THEY CAN'T PERFORM THROUGH ALL THREE OF THOSE THIS ACTION IS MOOT. YOU KNOW, THEY ARE ASKING TO ABANDON -- THEY ARE ASKING TO CLOSE THOROUGH FAVORS AND I CAN SEE HICKORY IS A DEAD END GOING TO CEDAR, CEDAR IS DEAD END GOING TO VOGEL AND IT IS DEAD END GO TO THE CAMPUS AND THOSE KIND OF MAKE SENSE TO ME. SIMMONS, IS A STRAIGHT THOROUGH FAVOR THROUGH STREET.
>> RIGHT. >> YOU KNOW, AND HARDIN SIMMONS DOESN'T OWN BOTH SIDE THROUGH THERE. TO ME, THAT IS A MUCH HARDER SELL BEFORE ME.
>> I THINK A REASONABLE PERSON COULD CONCLUDE THAT IT IS PREMATURE, UNTIL ACQUIRING BOTH SIDE OF THE RIGHT OF WAY AND HAVE THEIR PLANS FOR THE INTERNAL CIRCULATION FINALIZED.
IT WOULDN'T BE OUT OF THE ORDINARY AND, KELLY, YOU CAN CORRECT ME, YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THREE, ON THREE OF THE CLOSURES, TO CLOSE THOSE AND LEAVE ONE THAT YOU RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE CLOSURE IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY? IT IS NOT AND ALL OR NOTHING.
YOU CAN -- YOU ARE FREE TO BREAK IT UP INTO ANY WAY YOU WANT TO AND IMPOSE THE CONDITIONS ON ALL OF THEM, AND EXCLUDE ONE AND SAY WE FIND IT IS PREMATURE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF SIMMONS UNTIL THE INTERNAL CIRCULATION OF THE PROPERTY OF THE CAMPUS IS WORKED OUT AND UNTIL THE M KA PUS OWNS BOTH SIDE OF THE ROAD. THEN YOU CAN COME BACK AND REVISIT IT IN THE FUTURE, WHEN THERE IS MORE KNOWN DETAILS AND LESS SPECULATIVE QUESTIONS OUT THERE.
SO, I THINK YOU HAVE THAT PREROGATIVE. >>> WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? >> I LIKE THAT.
I THINK THAT WILL MAKE MORE SENSE THAN ALL OF IT. WITH THE CONDITIONS FOR SIMMONS.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR ANYBODY WANT TO -- YOU KNOW, PUT THAT INTO A MOTION OR DO WE WANT
TO . . . >> A MOTION? I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THE MOTION, WE ARE GOING TO APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS ON SIMMONS? RIGHT?
>> I GUESS, IF I WAS GOING TO -- IF I WAS -- I WOULD SAY WE APPROVED THE THOROUGH FAVOR CLOSURES OF CEDAR (^) AND HICKORY AND VOGEL BUT WE DENY SIMMONS AT THIS TIME, BASED ON UNTIL THERE IS FURTHER INFORMATION BASED ON IT. SO, THE --, THERE SO CONDITION
ON SIMMONS. >> CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION? EITHER BEFORE OR AFTER YOUR ACTION, IF YOU CAN -- ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A BREAK IT UP, MAYBE HAVE A COUPLE OF FINDINGS OF FACT OF WHY YOU ARE -- WHY YOU MAY RECOMMEND DENIAL OF ONE AND SUPPORT OF THE OTHER ONES? THE CITY COUNCIL UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS WAS ESPECIALLY IF SIMMONS IS THE
POINT OF CONTENTION. >>> YEAH. I MEAN I GET THAT.
THEY WILL GET TO WATCH IT SO -- OR LISTON US. THEY CAN FOLLOW ALONG WITH THE CONVERSATION. BUT, I MEAN I CAN VOICE WHAT I THINK OR SAYING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, SIMMONS IS A THOROUGHFARE AND HARDIN SIMMONS DOESN'T OWN BOTH SIDE OF THE STREET SO I I CAN'T SEE -- I DON'T THINK CLING THE STREET THROUGH THERE IS
APPROPRIATE. >> I AGREE. >>> I AGREE.
[00:35:02]
>>> SO, SHANTAI, YOU WANT TO VERBALIZE? >> I VOTE THAT WE APPROVE THE THREE STREETS, CEDAR, HICKORY, AND VOGEL, BUT DENY SIMMONS WITH THE MOTION.
>> AND THE CONDITIONS THESE FIVE CONDITIONS THAT WE HAVE ON THIS, THE STAFF RECOMMENDED
CONDITIONS TO GO ALONG WITH CEDAR, HICKORY AND VOGEL. >> AND WITH THE FIVE
CONDITIONS. WITH CEDAR -- >> GOT THAT MELISSA?
>> VOGEL AND HICKORY. >>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
THAT IS MY MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND TO THAT? >> SECOND.
WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. YOU WANT T >> THE MOTION CARRIES.
>>> STONING CASE Z. 20, 2022-20, REZONE APPROXIMATELY 3.7-ACRES ALONG INDUSTRIAL BOULEVARD FROM AGRICULTURAL OPEN SPACE TO GENERAL, IS THIS THE ONE?
IS THIS INDUSTRIAL? >> I DON'T THINK SO. REZONE 9.7 FROM AGRICULTURAL TO
GENERAL COMMERCIAL, CLARISSA? >> HELLO, I'M CLARISSA WITH THE ZONING DEPARTMENT FOR D.
2022-20, REQUEST TO RESYNDROME FROM AGRICULTURAL OPEN TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL.
AND AT THE 3400 BLOCK OF OLDEN ON THE SOUTH CORNER, OF OLDEN ROAD, AND LOOP 332 (^).
> >> HERE WE HAVE A MAP OF THE LOCATION SHOWING WHERE IT WILL BE RIGHT IN THE CORN REASON OF OLDEN LANE AND LOOP 332. THIS IS WHAT THE CURRENT ZONING, SURROUNDING PROPERTY LOOKS LIKE. WE HAVE GENERAL COMMERCIAL TO THE WEST, AND RESIDENTIAL ZONING TO THE SOUTH, ACROSS THE LOOP WE HAVE SOME MORE GENERAL COMMERCIAL.
INSIDE THE PERMITTED USES WITHIN THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL ZONING, AND HERE ARE SEVERAL VIEWS FROM THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. WE SENT A NOTIFICATION TO A 200-FOOT BUFFER AND RECEIVED ONE IN FAVOR. AND THAT WAS FROM THE PROPERTY AT 3539 OLDEN LANE.
WE REVIEW THE REQUEST AND IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND WITH THE SURROUNDING USE INSTANCE, ZONING IS GENERALLY ACCEPTED THROUGH THE PLANNING PRINCIPLES AND CRITERIA OF APPROVAL IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS FOR CLARISSA? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
SOMEONE LIKE TO COME UP AND VISIT WITH US AND HAVE ANY INPUT ON THE ZONING CASE? SEEING NO ONE,LY CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, LOOKS STRAIGHT FORWARD.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE. >> SECOND. >> MOTION IS SECONDED.
[00:40:01]
YES. >> MR. NONAN AND MR. ROSENBAUM, AND THE MOTION CARRIES.
>>> ZONING CASE Z. 2022-21, THIS IS THE ONE ON INDUSTRIAL, 4.7-ACRES FROM HEAVY COMMERCIAL TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL ON INDUSTRIAL BOULEVARD.
>>> AFTERNOON. ADAM HOLLAND. CITY OF ABILENE PLANNING.
THIS IS A, THIS IS CASE Z. 2022-21, OWNED BY PACK HARRIS ENTERPRISES L. T. D. REPRESENTED BY KEVIN PHILLIPS, A REQUEST TO REZONE FROM HEAVY COMMERCIAL TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL AND THIS IS LOCATED AT, OR THIS IS KNOWN AS LOT 401, BLOCK A., INDUSTRIAL TRADE CENTER.
HERE SA LOCATION MAP SHOWING THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED REZONING.
HERE IS THE CURRENT ZONING MAP, SHOWING THE EXISTING ZONING CURRENTLY HE THERE IS LIGHT INDUSTRIAL TO THE WEST AND SOUTH, WITH HEAVY COMMERCIAL TO THE EAST, AND GENERAL COMMERCIAL TO THE NORTH. AND THE EXISTING ZONING OF THIS IS HEAVY COMMERCIAL.
HERE ARE THE PERMITTED USES WITHIN HEAVY COMMERCIAL ZONING. AND HERE ARE THE PERMITTED USES WITHIN GENERAL COMMERCIAL ZONING. HERE ARE SUBJECT VIEWS OF THE PROPERTY, CURRENTLY, IT IS BEING USED FOR RETAIL USES AMONG MOST OTHER THINGS AND THERE ARE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES WHO ARE -- USING IT AS WELL, AS WELL AS RETAIL.
WE RECEIVED NO NOTIFICATIONS BACK WHETHER IN FAVOR OR OPPOSED.
THIS PROPOSED REQUEST IS FOUND CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SURROUNDING USES AND ZONING, GENERALLY ACCEPTED PLANNING PRINCIPLES AND THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND P. AND Z. RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. I WILL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS YOU HAVE FOR ME. >>> QUESTIONS FOR ADAM? >> THANK, AD AM.
>> ON THE PUBLIC HEARING ANYONE LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS ZONING CASE?
>> SEEING NO ONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSION FOR THE FURTHER
DISCUSSION OR MOTION? >> I LO MOVE TO APPROVE. >> I WILL SECOND.
>>> MOTION IS SECOND. >>> MR. BARNETT? >> YES, MR. DENHAM, YES,
MR. NONAN, MISS FLEMING AND MR. ROSENBAUM. >> YES.
[DISCUSSION]
>> THE MOTION TO APPROVE CARRIES. >> LAST ON THE AGENDA THIS TO RECEIVE A REPORT AND HOLD A DISCUSSION ON PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS RESIDENTIAL SINGLE-FAMILY R. S. 5 ZONING DESIGNATION WHICH A MINIMUM 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT. ADAM OR CLARISSA, OR RANDY, IS -- ARE YOU, ANYBODY GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION TO US OR YOU JUST LETTING US DISCUSS?
>> YOU CAN IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO. WE ARE WORKING O AN STAFF LEVEL WITH THE CITY ADMINISTRATION AND ON THE WHOLE QUESTION OF DO WE EVEN WANT IT AT ALL OR ARE THERE ANY ADVANTAGES OR IS THE CITY BETTER SERVED CONTINUING TO ARE I VIEW THE PROPOSED R. 5 TYPE LOTS THROUGH A P. E. MECHANISM, WE HAVE SO FAR AT THIS POINT WE HAVE DRAFTS P. AND D. LANGUAGE THAT WE THINK CAN ADDRESS THE ISSUE THROUGH THE PLANNING, I MEAN THROUGH THE P. U. D.
PROCESS BETTER POSSIBLY THAN THROUGH A STRAIGHT R. 5 DISTRICT.
WE ARE, AGAIN, WE ARE STILL WORKING THROUGH THAT, MY, MY EXPERIENCE, AND WORKING IN OTHER COMMUNITIES, IS THAT DEVELOPERS ARE REAL SMART. AND BY THAT, WHAT I MEAN IS, IF YOU GIVE THEM AND OPTION FOR R. 5, OR IF YOU GET AND OPTION FOR R. 4, IT IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST TO GO FOR THE LOWEST ZONING DISTRICT, FOR THE HIGHEST DENSITY, BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM OPTIONS. IF THEY WERE TO REZONE SOMETHING R. A. OR R. 10, YOU HAVE REDUCED THE AMOUNT OF OPTIONS IT CAN DO TO JUST A FEW, IF YOU CAN GO R. 5, OR R. 6 YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE BIGGER LOTS, SO YOU HAVE GIVEN YOURSELF OPTIONS AS THE MARKET DICTATES.
SO, IF ALL OF A SUDDEN PEOPLE WANT SMALL LOTS YOU HAVE GOT THE ABILITY TO GO TO THE SMALLER R.
5-TYPE SCALE, OR IF THE MARKET IS KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE WHERE PEOPLE WANT DIFFERENT OPTIONS, WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE SEEN MOST PLACES YOU CAN DO DIFFERENT PODS, YOU HAVE SOME -- IF YOU GO R. 5 YOU HAVE PODS THAT ARE R. 5 AND R. 6 AND R. 8, AND KIND OF MIX AND MATCH WITH THE MARKET, SO, IF I AM A DEVELOPER AND I WANT TO HAVE ALL THE OPTIONS I WANT THE MOST OPTIONS IN MY BUILDING, TO GO WITH AS THE FLOW DEVELOPS, I WOULD WANT TO HAVE R. 5, OR RIGHT NOW AS IT EXISTS I WANT TO HAVE R. 6 HERE IN ABILENE BECAUSE YOU HAVE MORE OPTIONS AND IF YOU GO R. 12 OR
[00:45:01]
R. 10, WE ARE LOOKING AT LANGUAGE THAT IF SOMEBODY DOES GO TO A P. D. OPTION GO WITH HIGHER DENSITY LOTS THAT THE CITY CAN F WE ARE GOING TO GIVE SOME CONCESSIONS FOR HIGHER DENSITY LOTS, THEN A CITY SHOULD GET AT LEAST A RETURN THAT IS COMMENSURATE WITH WHAT WE ARE GIVING UP. SO IF YOU GO TO TO A HIGHER DENSITY WE WANT SOMETHING IN RETURN, LIKE, AND ENHANCED LANDSCAPING BUFFERING OR A STREET TREATMENT, ALONG THE ARTERIAL AND COLLECTOR STREET AND NICE ENTRANCE INTO THE SUBDIVISION LIKE WITH A BOULEVARD-TYPE OF THING. BY WANT YOU AND THE CITY COUNCIL TO TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO KNOW WHICH P. D.ES WE SHOULD BE ACCEPTING, AND WHICH ONES WE MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER HARD BEFORE WE DO APPROVE THOSE. RIGHT NOW IT IS OPEN ENDED. THERE IS NO CRITERIA IN THE SECTION THAT SAID WE SHOULD APPROVE THESE OR NOT APPROVE THOSE.SO, RIGHT NOW, WE ARE -- WE ARE LOOKING AT KIND OF THREE-PRONGED PROCESS, HOW DO WE IMPROVE THE P. D. DISTRICT, IS R. 5 AND OPTION WE EVEN WANT TO ENTERTAIN OR IS THERE SOME HYBRID, BETWEEN
THE TWO, AND I THINK -- >> YOU HAVE A LITTLE INPUT, TOO?
>> I DO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW WE HAVE HAD AT LEAST ONE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT REACHED TOUT SAY THEY WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS. SO, THE CITY MANAGER HAS DIRECTED STAFF TO GO AHEAD AND TO INVESTIGATE THE R. 5 DESIGNATION, WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AND SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENT FIRMS IN TOWN, SO, THERE IS AND INTEREST IN DOING THAT. WE ARE PLANNING ON MEETING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, WHETHER IT BE THE HOMEOWNERS, THE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION, OR OTHER ASSOCIATE GROUPS INVOLVED IN DEVELOPMENT IN ABILENE TO TRY TO GET A FEEL OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOOD, THINGS THAT MAY NOT BE GOOD ABOUT THIS PROCESS, ONCE WE HAVE GATHERED ALL THAT AND WE WILL COME BACK AND DO FORMAL PRESENTATION TO PLANNING AND ZONE SOG YOU HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
>> I THINK THAT IS GREAT PATH FORWARD, AND -- BUT, YOU KNOW, -- WHAT -- AND IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE WE HAVE HAD PATIO HOME DISTRICT, PATIO HOME IS 40-FOOT WIDE LOTS, BUT, IF YOU O GO BACK AND YOU LOOK, THERE IS SEVERAL PATIO HOMES AND I NO E THESE GUYS HERE, THEY ARE ONES LIVING WITH IT ERR DAY AND THEY HAVE COMMENT I. LOOKS TO ME LIKE PATIO HOME LOTS THEY HAVE BEEN DOING 50-FOOT WIDE, IT IS BEEN PATIO HOME DESIGNATED, THEY HAVE BEEN DOING 50-FOOT WIDE LOTS IN PATIO HOME TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. SO, -- I JUST, I WANTED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT DO WE -- IF WE COME UP WITH P. D. THAT HAS IT THIS THERE, DO WE NEED -- ARE WE FOR OR AGAINST IT OR DO WE HAVE COMPROMISE THERE? IF WE GO STRAIGHT R. S. 5, WE CAN -- IF WE HAVE A P. D. WE CAN PUT ADDITIONS ON IT, IF WE GO WITH A STRAIGHT R. S. 5 I'M NOT
SURE WE CAN PUT CONDITIONS ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD. >> UNLESS YOU EXPRESSLY CREATE AND R. 5 DISTRICT THAT HAS BUILT-IN CRITERIA IN THE REGULATIONS YOU ARE CORRECT.
>>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN THE PUBLIC
HEARING. >> ABSOLUTELY. PE CAN LISTEN TO SOME OF THESE GUYS AND THEIR INPUT. I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. SOME OF YOU GUYS WANT TO COME
TALK OR WE WILL JUST LISTON US? >> GOOD AND, WITH JACOB AND MARTIN, I APPRECIATE CLINT YOU BRINGING THIS TOPIC UP. YOU KNOW, THIS ZONING DISTRICT IS ONE THAT IS ONE THAT WE SUPPORT. WE FEEL LIKE IT IS NEEDED. YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT, PATIO HOME, IT IS NOT LIKE WE DON'T ALREADY ALLOW SMALLER LOTS. I MEAN, WE ALLOW THOSE AND LOTS OF OTHER DISTRICTS. PATIO HOME IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. THE REASON YOU -- NO ONE IS WANTING TO REQUEST PATIO HOME TO GET A -- TO GET THE FLICT, BECAUSE REALLY IT COMES DOWN TO FLEXIBILITY. EVERY TYPE OF SMAIP OF PROPERTY YOU ARE TRYING TO DEVELOP YOUR LOT WIDTHS AND IT HELPS YOU BE MORE EFFECTIVE WITH THE SPACE. PATIO HOME, THE WAY THE
[00:50:06]
ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN IS NOT HOW IT IS BEING ENFORCED BUT THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN IS YOU HAVE TO BUILD TO A ZERO LOT LINE. AND MOST PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT.THEY -- IT COMES WITH, AND THAT IS A WHOLE OTHER DISCUSSION BUT IT COMES WITH SOME INHERENT PROBLEMS SHOVING A BUILDING UP ON THE PROPERTY LINE. MOST DEVELOPERS BUILDERS, THEY WANT SOME SIDE YARD. BUT A AGAIN THE PATIO HOME DISTRICT YOU ARE REQUIRED, THE WAY I READ THE CODE YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PUSH IT UP ZERO, IT IS NOT ENFORCED THAT WAY.
WE HAVE PATIO HOME NEIGHBORHOODS BUILD OFF TO ZERO LINE. >>> BUT IT LOOKS TO ME, WITH A LITTLE INVESTIGATION I DID, AND YOU CAN ANSWER YES OR NO. IS IT LOOKED TO ME THERE WERE STILL 50-FOOT LOTS WHERE PAT BLOW IS 40-FOOT LOT WHERE ZERO AND 10, WHERE IT LOOKS TO ME THE RECENT PATIO HOME DEVELOPMENT ARE 50-FOOT WIDE LOTS WITH 5 ON BOTH SIDE IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE
TO ME. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >>> OKAY.
>>> YEAH. THAT IS THE TREND, WE HAVE SEEN AS WELL.
SO, WHEN YOU COMPARE AND R. S. 6 LOT TO R. S. 5, R. S. 6 IS 60-FOOT WIDE BY 100 DEEP MINIMUM DIMENSIONS AND AGAIN THE DISTRICT IS TO SET THE MINIMUM WIDTH, NOT EVERY LOT IS GOING TO BE LIKE THAT. I WOULD SUGGEST, UP TO, 20% OF THE LOFTS IN ANY NEIGHBORHOOD ARE FAR LARGER OR WIDER, DEEPER, THAN WHAT THE MINIMUMS ARE, EVEN IF YOUR GOAL SO MAKE THEM ALL THE MINIMUM. YOU JUST CAN'T. AROUND -- IN CUL-DE-SAC, KEY LOTS, BENDS, YOU JUST CAN'T MAKE THAT HAPPEN. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN R. S. 6 AND 5 IS SIMPLY THE LOT WIDTH AND THE SITE SETBACK. SO, R. S. 6 IT IS A 60-FOOT LOT WITH A 6-FOOT SIDE STEPBACK, R. S. 5, WE TYPICALLY SEE WOULD BE A 50-FOOT LOT WITH A 5-FOOT YARD SETBACK, DRIVING DOWN THE STREET, OBVIOUSLY YOUR DENSITY IS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN WHAT YOU WOULD GET AND R. S. 6 BUT THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE HOUSES, YOU ALMOST CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE, I MEAN, EVEN IF YOU HAD AND R. S. 6 AND 5 NEIGHBORHOOD AND CONNECTED DROVE DOWN THE STREET I DON'T THINK YOU CAN PULL OUT WHEN YOU WERE PULLING OUT OF THE R. S. 5 AND 6. SO, WE FELT LIKE AND R. R. S. 5 DISTRICT IS ONE THAT PROVIDED THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY WITH SOME MORE FLEXIBILITY. IT KIND OF BRIDGED THE GAP BETWEEN PATIO HOME AND R. S. 6, AND I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF P. D.ES.
I DON'T LIKE THEM. WE TRY TO STEER CLEAR OF THEM AS WE CAN.
UNFORTUNATELY, ONE OF THE ZONING REQUESTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, WE HAVE REPRESENTED, I THINK THAT ONE WAS DENIED AT P. AND Z. A LOT OF CONFUSION. BUT WE HAD TO DEAL WITH IT.
THE PEE D. HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR A LONG TIME AND IT WITH WAS GOING BE TO BE A TRAIN WRECK TO TRY TO UNDO IT. BUT, I -- WE DON'T LIKE TO -- IF IT MAKES SENSE, IF AND R. S. 5 ZONING MAKES SENSE IN THE COMMUNITY, WE DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT THAT BY HAVING TO GO THROUGH A P. D. I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU REALLY LOSE ANYTHING, I DON'T KNOW IF THE CITY LOSES ANYTHING, BY A DEVELOPER GOING R. A. 5 AS OPPOSED TO R. S. 6. THE LOT DENSITY, I DID THE MATH THE OR DAY, I THINK YOU GO FROM R. S. 6, I THINK IT IS ROUGHLY FOUR LOTS PER ACRE, TO 5 LOTS PER ACRE. SO, YOUR DENSITY IS NOT GOING WAY UP BY GOING TO R. A. 5.
I KNOW THE MATH SOMETIMES, THERE IS 43, 560, SQUARE FEET IN AND ACHESOR IF YOU TAKE 6,000 MINIMUM SQUARE FEET AND DIVIDED TO 43, THAT IS NOT HOW THAT MATH WORKS BECAUSE OF ALL THE RIGHT OF WAY DEDICATIONS AND DRAINAGE DETENTION PONDS AND EASEMENTS THOSE SORT OF THINGS.
IT IS NOT QUITE THAT LINEAR IN TERMS OF DENSITY. IT IS, OBVIOUSLY, WITH, WE WERE, THE APPLICANT, WITH REPRESENTED THE APPLICANT FOR THE LAST TWO R. 5 REQUESTS, AND WE SEE THE -- WE ARE GETTING REQUEST A LOT. WE SEE IT MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION.
I DON'T THINK IT IS, WE DO DEVELOP LAND DEVELOPMENT IN A LOT OF COMMUNITIES, AND A 50-FOOT WIDE LOT IS VERY COMMON. I WOULD SAY IT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE UNCOMMON TO HAVE IT THAN NOT HAVE IT. I DON'T KNOW IT IS A STRETCH TO HAVE AND R. 5 DISTRICT BE PUT IN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. I KNOW THE CITY IS, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED HAVING DISCUSSIONS
[00:55:01]
WITH STAFF ABOUT IS THERE AND OPPORTUNITY THEREFORE FOR THIS, I THINK THEY ARE WORKING THROUGH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN NOW AND UPDATE TO THE L. T. D.C. IS FORTH COME SOG THEY WERE TRYING TO GET THAT TO MERGE. YEAH, WE ARE GLAD THAT THE DISCUSSIONS HAPPENING NOW, WE THINK IT IS NEEDED. YOU KNOW, FROM A PHILOSOPHICAL STANDPOINT I FEEL LIKE THE, JUST GIVEN THE WAY CONSTRUCTION COSTS CONTINUE TO ESCALATE SUBSTANTIALLY, ALLOWING -->> IT IS WHAT IS GOING TO HELP THE ABILENE MARKET REMAIN VERY COMPETITIVE WITH CONTINUED GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT. I HEAR A LOT THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT IS SMALL LOTS IT IS GOING TO TURN INTO A BAD NEIGHBORHOOD OR A SLUM OR, YOU HEAR DIFFERENT THINGS, AND WHILE I GUESS THAT IS POSSIBLE FOR REALLY ANY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS BUILT, A SMALL LOT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT. I HAVE SEEN PLENTY OF REALLY NICE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE 50-FOOT LOTS, EVEN IN ABILENE, I CAN LIST OFF A HANDFUL. SO, I DON'T KNOW IT IS QUITE
THAT LINEAR TO SAY IT WOULD BE A POOR NEIGHBORHOOD. >>> WHILE I HAVE THE MICROPHONE, ONE OTHER THING THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER WASW ZONING IS FINDING SOMETHING FOR DUPLEXES TO FIT A LITTLE BIT BETTER INTO OUR STANDARD ZONING. YOU HAVE SEEN A RASH OF P. D.ES, JACOB AND MARTIN REPRESENTING OUR CLIENTS, TRYING TO GET TO WHERE THEY CAN SPLIT DUPLEXES DOWN THE MIDDLE, UNFORTUNATELY, THE WAY TOWN HOLM ZONING IS WRITTEN, IT IS NOT A PLUG AND PLAY, IT REQUIRES A MINIMUM OF THREE CONNECTED UNIT, NOT TWO. AND SO, MY GUESS IS IT WAS JUST
AND OVERSIGHT BUT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DESIRE FOR THAT TYPE F >> IS THE, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN GO 50-FOOT, YOU GET A LITTLE NARROWER AND PACK A FEW MORE LOTS IN, INTO A SUBDIVISION, BUT IS THAT -- ARE THEY REDUCING SIZE OF THE HOUSES BASED ON THAT, TOO?
THEY JUST GIVE YOU LESS SIDE YARD? >> I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERY DEVELOPER OR EVERY BUILDER BUT I WOULD SAY THAT GENERALLY YOU ARE GETTING SAME SIZE HOUSE IT IS
JUST A SMALLER YARD. >>> SO YOU CAN, BASICALLY YOU GET MORE, YOU GET MORE DENSITY
TO THE SUBDIVISION RATHER THAN -- >> THAT IS PROBABLY ACCURATE.
>> NOW, WHEN WE SAY 100-FOOT DEPTH THAT IS MINIMUM, OBVIOUSLY, IN YOU R. 6 AS WELL.
WHEN I LAY OUT A SUBDIVISION CAN I'M TRYING TO AVOID A IS HUNDRED FOOT DEPTH BECAUSE IT CREATES MORE PROBLEM, YOU INEVITABLY HAVE A LOT, STANDARD R. A. 6 WHEN I DO IT IS 7200-FOOT BECAUSE WE WANT THE 120-FOOT OF DEPTH, WHEN WE GO TO 120-FOOT ON A 50 SHOOT YOU STILL WILL HAVE A 6,000-FOOT LOT BUT JUST 50-FOOT WIDTH. I THREW A UNBE. OF NUMBERS A
THE YOU BUT -- >> NO, THAT IS WHAT I HAVE SEEN MOST LOTS ARE 120-FOOT DEEP NOT
[01:00:06]
100 BECAUSE OF THE EASEMENTS AND SETBACKS,. >> THE 100-FOOT USUALLY KICKS IN, CUL-DE-SACS OR KNUCKLES OR BENDS, THAT IS WHERE IT NORMALLY TRIGGERS.
>>> THANK YOU. B.J. PRITCHARD, DON'T HAVE REALLY MUCH TO ADD TO THAT.
I THINK THEY BOTH SPOKE TO THAT VERY WELL, AND VERY CLEARLY. I WOULD SAY YEAH, WE ARE STARTING TO SEE FROM A DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT A LOT MORE DESIRE TO COMPRESS LOT SIZES DOWN AND STILL BUILD THE SAME KIND OF HOUSE, THEY JUST WANT MORE SELLABLE SPACE.
TRYING TO OFF SETH CONSTRUCTION COSTS AND OTHER ADDED COSTS THAT ARE GOING INTO THE DEVELOPMENTS NOWADAYS. SO, ONE OTHER THING TO THINK ABOUT, TOO, I AM KIND OF THROWING MY CLIENT UNDER THE BUS A LITTLE BIT BUT AS FAR AS STREET DESIGNS GO, IF WE START HAVING MORE DENSE SUBDIVISIONS, OUR 30-FOOT RIGHT OF WAYS OR 30-FOOT WIDE STREETS AND 50-FOOT RIGHT OF WAYS ARE STILL NECESSARILY THE BEST WAY TO GO? SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF THOSE SMALLER LOTTED SUBDIVISIONS END UP WITH A LOT MORE CARS PARKED IN STREET, YOU DON'T HAVE HAVE AS MUCH DRIVEWAY SPACE CLEARLY, IT JUST IS ACCESSING IN AND OUT SEEMS LIKE IT GETS TIGHT FROM TIME TO TIME. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ALSO WANT TO BE CONSIDERED AS FAR AS JUST, IF YOU ARE INCREASING DENSITY YOU WILL BE INCREASING TRAFFIC.
AND TRYING TO MAKE SURE THERE IS A MAINTAINABLE PATH FOR EMERGENCY VEHICLES IN AND OUT AT
ALL TIME. >>> GOOD POINT, B.J. >> ANYWAY, THAT IS ALL I HAD TO
SAY. >> THANKS. WE APPRECIATE IT.
ANYBODY ELSE? I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC DR. YES, SIR?
>> CAN I THROW OUT ONE THING? YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING THAT I THOWGHTSD WAS INTERESTING THAT HE SAID IT BECAUSE IT JIVES WITH SOMETHING I WAS THINKING, I DI CUSSED WIT TIM, AT LEAST.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT MADE IT TO YOUR LEVEL. BUT, A REAL SIMPLE SOLUTION TO ALL OF THIS, YOU KNOW, HE MENTIONED, IF WE HAD AND R. 5 OPTION WE MIGHT HAVE 20, 25% OF OUR PRODUCT WOULD BE OF THAT SIZE. THE REAL SIMPLE SOLUTION IS YOU LEAVE THE R. 6 ALONE AND ALLOW THE DEVELOPERS TO BUILD UP TO 20, 20-25%, WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS WE COME UP WITH, HOMES THAT HAVE REDUCED LOT SIZE, LOT AREA, AND THEN HE CAN -- HE CAN PROPOSE A PLAT THAT SHOWS WHERE THE LOTS WILL BE LOCATED WITHIN THE SUBDIVISION, THE CONCERN PEOPLE HAVE IS IF YOU BUILD THE TINY LOTS, NEXT TO 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS, WHERE YOU HAVE GOT BIG LOTS AND WHERE THEY DON'T WANT 5-6 HOUSES BUTTING UP AGAINST THE PROPERTY F THEY CAN SPOT THOSE WHERE THEY WANT THEM TO BE AS A POD WITHIN THE OVERALL SUBDIVISION, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT -- THAT WAS MY HYBRID SOLUTION. INSTEAD OF A P. D. OR R. 5, YOU ALLOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THEN IT BEARS OUT, OR THE R. 5 SIZE HOUSES ARE GOING TO BE WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT. THEY AVOID A P. D. AND WE AVOID HAVING TO THE DISCUSSION OF HAVING THE DRAFT A COMPLICATED ORDINANCE TO, YOU KNOW, SITE THEM WITHIN THE SUBDIVISION, WHERE THEY CAN BE. THAT IS ANOTHER OPTION. AND IT IS FUNNY HE MENTIONED, NO, 20% OF THE OVERALL AREA, BECAUSE THAT IS THE NUMBER I PULLED OUT OF MY HEAD AS I THOUGHT SOMETHING THAT WAS REASONABLE. SO THAT, JUST ME AS INTERESTING, THAT WILL BE THE THIRD OPTION THERE. THERE IS A THIRD VERSION OF A HYBRID OPTION, YOU CAN CONSIDER, WORKS FOR ME, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM THE CITY COUNCIL AND FROM THE COMMISSION, BUT, IT IS ANOTHER OPTION. WE CAN LOOK AT.
>>> SURE. >> YEAH, I WILL LEAD THE PUBLIC HEARING.
THANK, CLINT. SORRY, JUST A COUPLE MORE THOUGHTS AS OTHERS WERE TALKING.
SO, THE CURRENT PATIO HOME, MAYBE ANOTHER WAY TO ACCOMPLISH THIS, RATHER THAN CREATING A NEW DISTRICT, WE HAVE A DISTRICT THAT ALLOW AS 40-FOOT WIDE LOT IN THE PATIO HOMES AND, CLINT, LIKE YOU POINTED OUT, A LOT OF THOSE GO TO 50, RIGHT? IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE PROPERTY AND HOW THE DEVELOPER WANTS TO ATTACK IT. BUT, THE REASON WE GET RESISTANCE FROM OUR CLIENTS TO GO THAT DIRECTION, AND REQUEST THAT ZONING, IS BECAUSE THE CODE SAID YOU HAVE TO BUILD TO ZERO LOT LINE F WE WERE TO CLARIFY THAT IN THE CODE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHAT I WOULD SAY TO MY CLIENT IS, WELL, THE CITY HAS NEVER ENFORCED THAT.
[01:05:01]
YOU KNOW. I MEAN I CAN POINT TO PLACES ALL OVER.AND THE RERESPONSE I GET AND THEY ARE RIGHT IS, WELL, THEY MAY INTERPRET IT A DIFFERENT WAY RIGHT AFTER WE GET DONE REZONING THE PROPERTY AND THEN WE HAVE GOT A PROBLEM.
QUITE HONESTLY, WHEN YOU SAY PATIO HOME, PEOPLE GET A A BETTER FEELING ABOUT DEVELOPMENT. AS OPPOSED TO AND R. S. 5 OR R. S. 6.
>> THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY, THAT IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS HAD WISHED I ASKED YOU, IS THERE A -- IS THERE A FEEL WHEN YOU SAY R. S. 5 OR R. S. 6, TO MEOW THINK OF SINGLE-FAMILY HOME, WHEN YOU SAY PATIO HOME, YOU THINK OF A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING.
YOU KNOW. YOU HAVE NO YARD. YOU KNOW.
IS THERE A STIGMA THAT GOES ALONG ONE OR THE OTHER PUT LOOK AT THE PATIO YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL IN THE PATIO HOME DISTRICTS IT IS ZONED PATIO HOME.
>> THEY ARE, THEY ARE SEEING THAT THE INTENT REALLY WITH A PATIO HOME IS THE SEARCH THING YOU ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH AND R. S. 5. IEPTER THEY WENT TO CREATE A SMALLER LOT, HAS LESS MAIJT NEXT REQUIRED, AND CREATE AS HIGHER DENSITY, BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE, STILL A SINGLE FAMILY. IT NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN R. 6. WILL IS NO REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE DIFFERENT. THERE IS, IT'S JUST BUILDING TO THAT ZERO LOT LINE, NOBODY WANTS TO DO IT. WE WOULD HAVE REQUESTED IT HAD PAT YES HOME BEEN, IF WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE WE WERE REQUIRED TO BE TO BUILD TO A ZERO LOT LINE WE WOULD HAVE MADE THAT REQUEST INSTEAD OF OUR, WHAT WE CALLED MODIFIED R. S. 6, BUT REALLY R. 5.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN I -- I WANT TO CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT I MEANT ON FLEXIBILITY.
AND LAYING THE SUBDIVISIONS OUT. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL HIT ON IT WITH SIZE OF YARDS AND LOT DEPTH SO, THE PCLY IN AND R. 5 OR R. S. 6 NEIGHBORHOOD, A LOT OF THEM ARE TARGETING, YOU KNOW, ROUGHLY A 15-1800 SQUARE FOOT HOME. THAT SEEMS TO BE THE SWEET SPOT I GUESS FOR THE BUILDER, BUT A LOT OF THE HOUSES ARE 30, 35-FOOT LOT, AND SO, WHEN YOU DROP THOSE IN ON A 06-FOOT WIDE LOT, YOU HAVE GOT, YOU KNOW, 12-15 FEET ON EACH SIDE. AND THEN THE NEXT HOUSE IS THE SAME THING, 12-15 FEET. NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU HAVE GOT 30 FEET BETWEEN HOUSES, THE SIDE YARD HAS, IT IS THE SAME SIZE AS THE WIDTH OF THE HOUSE ITSELF. AND, YOU ARE ■CHEWING UPA LOT OF LAND. THAT IS NOT PART OF THE YARD THAT ANYBODY REALLY USES MUCH.
MAYBE AND A CORNER LOT, YEAH, BUT MOST PEOPLE USE THEIR BACBACKYARD.
AND SO, IT GIVES-- YOU NEED TO T LINE. WE HAVE BEEN VIOLATING THE PATIO HOME, I MOON LIKE I SAY, THE PATIO HOME, IF THEY MADE MORE THAN 50-FOOT LOTS AND IN 5-FOOT SETBACK, IT IS WHAT IT LOOK LIKE. THE VILLAGES, WHICH WAS FACTORED IN HEAVILY IN THE IN THE SCOPING CASE ON MEMORIAL, IT IS PATIO HOME, AND THEY ARE 50-FOOT LOTS.
SO, IT IS THE THE SAME KIND OF THING. >>> UNM DEVELOPERS TOLD US FOR SOME REASON THERE WAS A STIGMA RELATED TO PATIO HOMES, FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, HEY WE
[01:10:06]
WOULD LIKE THE FLEXIBILITY TO BE ABLE TO SELL THE HOUSES, FOR THEM TO BE R. A. 5 BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM THE SAME FLEXIBILITY THAT, THE ONLY ARGUMENT I WOULD THINK.I WOULD WANT TO BUILD APPROPRIATE SIZE HOUSES ON DIFFERENT LOTS AND DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE DIFFERENT SIZE LOTS, IF YOU WANT THE FLEXIBILITY AND YOU ARE DRIVING THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK THEY ARE EXACTLY RIGHT YOU ARE NOT OUT THERE MEASURING WITH YOUR EYES THAT SO-12 FEET BETWEEN THE TWO HOUSES, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE NOT SEEING THAT FLEX BACK AND FORTH. SO, I WOULD BE OPEN TO GIVING MORE FLEXIBILITY BOTH TO DEVELOPERS AND BUILDERS AND ALSO THE FAMILIES FOR WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR, I MEAN, TO AGAIN, TO HIS POINT OF NOT WANTING TO WASTE SIDE YARDS, YOU HAVE SOME ELDERLY OR RETIREES IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT REALLY ARE LOOKING FOR A HOUSE THAT IS ON A LOT THAT REALLY ONLY HAS A FRONT YARD OR BACKYARD, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE WANTING TO MAXIMIZE THEIR SPACE AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, I WOULD BE OPEN TO THAT DISCUSSION ON EITHER ONE.
I DO THINK WHEN WE HAVE THE CONTENTIOUS MEETING BEFORE ABOUT MEMORIAL, THERE WERE SEVERAL OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT LIVED IN TECHNICALLY PATIO HOMES THAT WERE LIKE IT IS NOT A PATIO HOME IT A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME. SO IT WUTS JUST TO YOUR POINT, IT WAS ZONED THAT WAY, TO MAXIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF, KIND OF WEIRD LITTLE WINE DI ROADS TO MAXIMIZE HOW TO PUT THE HOUSES THERE, SIDE BY SIDE. SO, I'M INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT THE REPORT WILL BE BACK AFTER Y'ALL TALK TO MORE BUILDERS AND DEVELOPERS AND, YOU KNOW, ENGINEERS AND AS I LAY IT OUT.
I THINK SOME TYPE OF FLEXIBILITY WILL BE GOOD FOR US AS A COMMUNITY.
>> GOOD. ANYBODY ELSE? I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S INPUT.
I FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE NOW IF WE GET A CASE BETWEEN THE INTERIM BETWEEN WHEN THE STAFF BRINGS SOMETHING BACK AND IN THAT, THAN WE HAVE HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE CAUGHT FLAT FOOTED NEXTTIME AND RANDY WILL HELP, HE HAS GOT SOME IDEAS, TOO.
SO MAYBE WE WILL -- IF THAT COMES UP WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE A P. D. OF SOME SORT I THINK, SO I APPRECIATE EVERYONE ESINPUT AND THANK YOU GOING BEING HERE TODAY AND GIVING YOUR INPUT.
UNLESS SOMEBODY HAS SOMETHING ELSE? WE WILL ADJ
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.