9. Resolution: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Take Action on Authorizing the City Manager to Enter into a Contract with Schneider Electric Buildings America Inc. (ESCO), for Phase 5 Energy Efficient Facility Improvements (Lesli Andrews)

[9. Resolution: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Take Action on Authorizing the City Manager to Enter into a Contract with Schneider Electric Buildings America Inc. (ESCO), for Phase 5 Energy Efficient Facility Improvements (Lesli Andrews)]

YES. THANK YOU. FIRST OFF, I WANT TO SAY THIS AGENDA WAS VERY HEAVY ON KIND OF THE THE BACK END STUFF.

EQUIPMENT, SOFTWARE, ALL THAT KIND OF GOOD STUFF. AND SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE STAFF.

THIS IS REALLY YOU GUYS BEHIND THE SCENES DOING YOUR JOB EVERY DAY, AND SO.

[00:20:01]

THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING YOU DO.

A LOT OF IT COMES TO US, AND WE JUST HIRE THE BEST WE CAN.

SO THANK YOU GUYS FOR FOR REALLY THIS AGENDA TODAY.

ON ITEM NINE, I DID HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. I, YOU KNOW, READ THIS OVER THE WEEKEND AND THEN READ IT A FEW MORE TIMES.

AND THIS DEALS WITH THE 10.6 MILLION FOR NEW UNITS REPLACING 48 PACKAGED UNITS, 11 HOT WATER BOILER UNITS, 19 SPLIT SYSTEMS AND FOUR CHILLER WATER CONDENSERS.

MINDY, JUST TO KIND OF GIVE AN OVERVIEW, LET ME KNOW IF I SUMMARIZE THIS CORRECTLY JUST FOR THOSE.

AND I'M HAVING TO CATCH UP TO SPEED ON THIS. I'M SURE THE REST OF THE COUNCIL IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS, BUT SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE A FIVE YEAR OLD. AND SO I'VE GOT TO DUMB IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT FOR MYSELF.

SO THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE'RE GOING IN AND SAYING, HEY, WE'VE GOT A BUNCH OF OF OLD WATER HEATERS, AC UNITS, WE NEED TO REPLACE THEM ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND SO WE'RE WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED IS WE SPEND TEN.

10 MILLION, A LITTLE OVER 10 MILLION TO GO IN IN ONE FELL SWOOP.

REPLACE ALL OF THESE AT ONCE. AND THEN THE THE CONTRACT THAT WE'RE DOING HERE WITH THIS COMPANY IS THEY WILL GO IN AND AND REPLACE ALL THESE FOR THE 10 MILLION. AND THEY ARE IN EFFECT GUARANTEEING THAT WE WILL SAVE IS IT 817,000 A YEAR, WHICH OVER 20 YEARS IS A LITTLE OVER 16 MILLION? IS THAT IS THAT SUMMARIZED FAIRLY ACCURATELY? OKAY. AND SO AND THOSE SAVINGS THAT GUARANTEED SAVINGS ARE FROM THE BASELINE OF, OF WHERE WE START, WHAT WE WOULD SPEND ON IF WE KEPT THE UNITS AS IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT AS ENERGY EFFICIENT VERSUS GOING IN AND REPLACING THEM WITH NEW ENERGY EFFICIENT UNITS THAT WILL SAVE ELECTRICITY AND THE SAVINGS THAT WE MAKE IN USING LESS ELECTRICITY.

IS THAT 817,000, WHICH TOTALS 16,000 AT THE END OF 20 YEARS.

THAT'S WHERE THE SAVINGS COME IN. CORRECT? OKAY.

AND SO THE 10,000,010.6 THAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO FUND TODAY THROUGH CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION DEBT THE THE INTEREST RATES ON THAT WOULD ROUGHLY BE AN ADDITIONAL 5 MILLION.

WOULD THAT BE ACCURATE ON THE INTEREST? YEAH.

SO IN TOTAL WE'RE DEPENDING ON WHICH WHICH BOND PACKAGE WE WOULD GO WITH.

BUT IN EFFECT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO FUND 15 TO 16 MILLION ON, ON THIS PROJECT.

CORRECT. CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO REALLY THE CRUX OF IT IS THE THE PRESENTATION FROM THE COMPANY IS, HEY, YEAH, IT'S GOING TO COST YOU 16 MILLION OVER 20 YEARS, BUT YOU WILL SAVE 817,000 IN ENERGY SAVINGS.

AND SO IT KIND OF PAYS FOR ITSELF. AND SO THE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS CONTRACT IS KIND OF TWOFOLD.

ONE. WHAT WHAT BASELINE THEY'RE USING TO CALCULATE THE SAVINGS.

BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S THE WHOLE ARGUMENT FOR THIS, FOR THIS CONTRACT, WE CAN EITHER DO IT PIECEMEAL, REPLACE THEM AS THEY FAIL OR AS THEY GET CLOSE TO FAILING.

AND IT'S A LITTLE EASIER ON OUR BUDGET. WE'RE NOT HAVING TO TAKE OUT 16 MILLION IN DEBT VERSUS ALL RIGHT, ONE FELL SWOOP. THE ADVANTAGE HERE IS THEY'RE SAYING, HEY, YOU'RE GOING TO GET THESE SAVINGS.

SO THE BASELINE OF CALCULATION ON ENERGY SAVINGS WHERE WE'RE AT, IF WE CONTINUED ON VERSUS UNDER THEIR PROPOSAL, WHAT TYPE OF ENERGY SAVINGS WE WOULD ACTUALLY MATHEMATICALLY GET IF WE IF WE DID THIS PROJECT, I THINK IS CRUCIAL. AND THEN THE OTHER THE OTHER POINT IS, AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC AND, AND WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO DISCUSS THIS BECAUSE I HAD TO READ IT A FEW TIMES TO MAKE SURE I WAS UNDERSTANDING THIS.

ON PAGE 40 AND IT'S 103 OF THE PACKET. THEY ARE CLAIMING THAT THEY WILL REDUCE DEMAND BY 8765, AND THAT'S PARK LIGHTING.

AND THAT IS TWO THIRDS OF THE SAVINGS IN THAT SPREADSHEET.

THAT'S TWO THIRDS OF THE SAVINGS RIGHT THERE.

I THINK ROUGHLY ALL THE OTHER BUILDINGS COMBINED ARE ROUGHLY AROUND 4000.

AND THIS IS 8700. SO OUT OF 12 TO 13,000 THIS IS 8700.

SO MOST OF THE SAVINGS ARE COMING FROM PARK LIGHTING ACCORDING TO THAT SPREADSHEET.

[00:25:03]

WHAT WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH PARK LIGHTING AS FAR AS THIS PROPOSAL THAT WE ARE SAVING? TWO THIRDS OF THAT WE WERE MAKING. TWO THIRDS OF THE SAVINGS FROM PARK LIGHTING.

I'M GOING TO ASK LESLIE ANDREWS TO COME AND ADDRESS THE ACTUAL PARK LIGHTING ON WHAT WE'RE DOING.

AND THEN OR MATT RYAN IS ALSO HERE TO ANSWER THE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON THAT.

AND I'LL POINT OUT AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT CHART, IT SAYS THE PROJECTED SAVINGS IN THE TABLE ABOVE ARE PROVIDED FOR REFERENCE ONLY ONLY, AND NOT INTENDED TO CONSTRUE SAVINGS GUARANTEE BY METER, FACILITY, OR ENERGY UNIT.

THE SAVINGS GUARANTEE IS DEFINED IN SCHEDULE C.

YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO GO ON. RIGHT.

THAT'S YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CAVEATS TO EVERYTHING.

BUT HERE THIS IS WHAT WE'RE WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO.

THESE ARE THE SAVINGS RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE MAYBE AN ANSWER, LESLIE, ON THAT OR EXPLANATION? ACTUALLY, LESLIE ANDREWS, DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION, I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO INTRODUCE MATT SCHNEIDER.

I THINK HE WOULD BE BETTER EQUIPPED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL.

I'M MATT LOMBARDO WITH SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC, AND THIS IS RYAN WONDER. HE'S OUR PROJECT DEVELOPMENT ENGINEER CAN REALLY SPEAK TO MORE OF THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF THINGS. SO SOME OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, ACTUALLY, I WANT TO POINT YOU TO PAGE 38 ON THIS PAGE THAT SORT OF BREAKS OUT WHERE THE SAVINGS IS COMING FROM.

YOU HAVE SOME, SOME, SOME REASONABLE ELECTRICAL SAVINGS, SOME DEMAND SAVINGS.

LIKE YOU POINTED, DEMAND SAVINGS IS NOT A SUBSTANTIAL PART OF THIS PROJECT.

AND THEN A BIG PART OF THIS PROJECT IS JUST AVOIDING ALL THE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE ITEMS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REPLACE IN THE FUTURE, WHICH WE ARE, WHICH IS LABELED IN HERE AS CAPITAL COST AVOIDANCE.

SO IT'S NOT THAT YOU HAVE 800,000 THAT'S SOMEHOW COMING OUT OF YOUR ELECTRICITY BILL.

IT'S MORE THAT, HEY, THERE'S ALL THESE ITEMS THAT ARE GOING TO FAIL. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REPLACE NO MATTER WHAT. WHAT IS THE COST OF NOT HAVING TO DEAL WITH EMERGENCY REPLACEMENTS? PIECEMEALING THAT WORK, STUFF LIKE THAT, AND UNDERSTANDING HOW THAT IMPACTS IT.

THERE IS SOME ENERGY SAVINGS OR ENERGY GUARANTEED SAVINGS IN THIS PROCESS AND THAT'S LISTED OUT THERE HERE ON PAGE 39 OR PAGE 38. SORRY. AND IF YOU LOOK UNDER PHASE FIVE BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN.

ONE THING I WILL NOTE, WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY FOR SINCE 2008.

SO WE'VE BEEN A PARTNER WITH THE CITY FOR 17 YEARS, HAVE DONE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS TO BRING A LOT OF EFFICIENCY TO THE TABLE FOR THE CITY IN GENERAL. SO WE'RE JUST ADDING ON TO THAT AND MAKING SURE YOU GUYS ARE ACCOUNTING FOR WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST AND THEN WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW.

BUT ON PAGE FIVE, YOU'LL KIND OF SEE OR ON PAGE 38 YOU'LL SEE UNDER PHASE FIVE.

ALL RIGHT. YOU GOT 25,000 AND MEASURED UTILITY SAVINGS TOTAL.

RIGHT. 469,000 NON-MEASURED SAVINGS O&M SAVINGS IS ANY IS ANY SAVINGS ASSOCIATED WITH NOT HAVING TO DEAL WITH MAINTENANCE OF PARTS? ALL THE STUFF THAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO REPAIR AND KEEP THINGS RUNNING.

AND THEN THE CAPITAL COST AVOIDANCE WOULD BE THE STUFF THAT YOU THAT WOULD BE THE COST OF NOT HAVING TO DEAL WITH ACTUALLY REPLACING THE END OF USEFUL LIFE EQUIPMENT SO THAT THAT IS WHERE ALL THIS IS, IS A PART OF AND WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH IN THIS PROJECT FOR PHASE FIVE.

SO YOU'RE TO SUMMARIZE WHAT YOU SAID, THE BENEFIT OF THIS AGREEMENT IS NOT REALLY THE THE COST SAVINGS OR THE ENERGY SAVINGS.

IT'S IN ONE FELL SWOOP. WE REPLACE EVERYTHING.

IS THAT IS THAT ACCURATE? EXACTLY. THINGS THAT ARE AT THE END OF USEFUL LIFE.

AND THERE'S SOME THINGS YOU'LL SEE. OUR TEAM AND RYAN DOES A GREAT JOB.

THEY TAKE A VERY STRATEGIC APPROACH OF UNDERSTANDING. WHAT CAN YOU GUYS RETAIN BECAUSE IT'S GOT SOME USEFUL LIFE LEFT. AND WHAT IS IT? YOU'RE KIND OF ON BORROWED TIME, AND THE EMERGENCY REPLACEMENT IS GOING TO BE VERY COSTLY FOR YOU. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE TARGETING THOSE PARTICULAR ITEMS IN THAT CONTRACT OKAY.

AND SO WE SHOULD PUT LESS FOCUS ON THE SAVINGS BECAUSE AND THIS IS THIS IS GREAT TO HEAR BECAUSE THIS IS NEWS TO ME AGAIN. THE REST OF THE COUNCIL MAY HAVE ALREADY BEEN AWARE. HEY DON'T FOCUS ON THE SAVINGS. FOCUS ON ON DOING IT WELL IN ONE FELL SWOOP. AND THAT'S THE ADVANTAGE. SO THIS IS GOOD INFORMATION FOR ME TO AT LEAST HEAR, BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE MAIN ADVANTAGE TO THIS AGREEMENT WAS, HEY, THESE ARE THE COST SAVINGS, AND THE SAVINGS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BALANCE OUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE COST. AND SO THEREFORE WE SHOULD GO WITH THIS PROGRAM RATHER THAN OPTION TWO OF REPLACING THEM AS NEEDED OR, YOU KNOW, BEFORE THEY FAIL.

BUT IN A MORE STEPPED UP PROCEDURE OVER THE NEXT ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR YEARS.

SO THAT'S GREAT FOR ME TO HEAR THAT THE FOCUS SHOULD NOT BE ON ON THE ENERGY SAVINGS.

YES. AND THE BIG BENEFIT AND I'LL NOTE THE VALUE PROPOSITION HERE, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THERE IS YOU'RE WORKING WITH A COMPANY AS A PARTNER. YOU'RE TAKING CARE OF THINGS STRATEGICALLY THROUGHOUT THE CITY, FOCUSING ON WHAT'S PRIORITY. A LOT OF THE SYSTEMS THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY WORKING ON, BUILDING AUTOMATION SYSTEMS, HVAC, ARE ALL SYSTEMS WE'VE BEEN MANAGING AND SUPPORTING IN THE PAST FOR THE PAST 17 YEARS.

SO WE KNOW WHERE WHERE THE OPPORTUNITY LIES FOR YOU GUYS TO TAKE TO UPDATE THINGS AND WHERE YOU DON'T NEED TO REALLY UPDATE THINGS.

[00:30:04]

AND SO THAT'S WHERE THE STRATEGIC APPROACH IS A REAL BIG VALUE FOR YOU AS WELL AS YOU'RE JUST DEALING WITH ONE COMPANY.

YOU'RE NOT ONE COMPANY WHO'S WORKING WITH SUBCONTRACTORS AND OTHER COMPANIES WHO CAN WHO CAN REALLY HELP YOU GUYS OUT, NOT HAVING TO TRY TO MANAGE ALL THESE CONTRACTORS PIECE BY PIECE.

AND ELEVATOR CONTRACTOR HERE, A CONTROLS CONTRACTOR THERE.

ALL THAT TO TRY TO MAKE IT ALL WORK AND NOT TO HIT THIS TOO HARD, BUT JUST SO THAT THAT THE PUBLIC HAS AN UNDERSTANDING.

SO THE 817,000 SAVINGS PROJECTED FROM YEAR SIX THROUGH 25.

THAT'S JUST A ESTIMATE OR. OR WHAT? WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THE CITIZENS OF ABILENE? HEY, THAT 817,000 A YEAR. EXPLAIN THAT. YEAH, THAT PARTICULAR ITEM IS CAPITAL COST AVOIDANCE.

JUST MEANING THAT IF YOU DIDN'T IF YOU DIDN'T DO THIS PROJECT, THIS WOULD BE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU WOULD, WOULD BE HAVING TO BE SPENDING TO REALLY REPLACE ALL THIS EQUIPMENT AS YOU GO ON. OKAY.

AND THEN I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL BE ABLE TO ANSWER OR YOU.

BUT ON THE, YOU KNOW, THE SPREADSHEET HERE ON PROJECTED SAVINGS.

AND THIS IS ON PAGE 103. AGAIN, IT HAS PARK LIGHTING, 8765KW ON. WHAT IS THIS, ON DEMAND. AND AGAIN, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, ALL THE OTHER BUILDINGS COMBINED, JUST FROM A ROUGH OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD CALCULATION TOTAL 4000 AND FROM PARK LIGHTING IS IS DOUBLE THAT.

IT'S 8700. AND THAT'S TWO THIRDS OF THE PROJECTED SAVINGS.

NOW WHETHER THAT HAPPENS OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT. I'M JUST LOOKING AT WHAT'S BEING PROVIDED. THIS IS HOW WE BASE OUR DECISIONS.

WHY IS PARK LIGHTING DOUBLE ALL OTHER CITY BUILDINGS COMBINED? IS THAT ACCURATE OR IS THERE A TYPO THERE OR WHAT? WHAT'S THE HOW ARE WE GETTING SO MANY, SO MUCH SAVINGS FROM PARK LIGHTING WHEN IT'S NOT REALLY ADDRESSED IN THIS THIS PROPOSAL? I'M SORRY. WE'RE ON PAGE 103. YEAH. 103. AND THERE'S TWO PACKETS UPLOADED.

SO MAKE SURE YOU'RE ON THE, THE ONE WITH 825 PAGES.

IT MAY BE ON 101 IF IT'S ON THE OTHER PACKET.

IT'S ON PAGE 40 OF THE ACTUAL CONTRACT. SO THERE'S TWO PAGE NUMBERS YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT.

OKAY. I GUESS I JUST DOWNLOADED THIS THIS MORNING.

AGAIN IT'S A SCHEDULE TWO D MEASUREMENT AND VERIFICATION PLAN PROJECTED ANNUAL SAVINGS AND COUNCILMAN.

I WILL TAKE PART OF THIS QUESTION. THEY CAN GET INTO THE MORE TECHNICALITY, BUT BY SWITCHING TO LED LIGHTS FROM ALL THE OLD LIGHT FIXTURES WE HAVE, WE HAVE SEEN A SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS IN OUR LIGHTS.

AND SO I THINK FROM GOING FROM PHASE FOUR, WHERE WE DID A LOT OF THAT PROJECT, ADDING ON PHASE FIVE AND THEN DOING THE RECALCULATIONS, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE SEE, THEY'RE CALCULATING MORE OF A SAVINGS THAN WE EVEN SAW IN PHASE FOUR.

AND THAT'S BY SWITCHING OUT SO MANY OF THE LIGHTS TO LED THAT BURN SO MUCH MORE EFFICIENTLY.

IT IS. IT'S BEEN VERY SHOCKING AT HOW MUCH OF A SAVINGS THERE HAS BEEN NO THAT LED PROGRAM, THOUGH. THAT'S A SEPARATE AGREEMENT WITH AEP THAT THE CITY ALREADY HAS. RIGHT. THIS IS NOT PART OF THIS CONTRACT, RIGHT? YES.

AEP IS STREET LIGHTS. AEP IS STREET LIGHTS. AND THEY DO HAVE LIGHTS IN OUR PARKS.

THIS IS THE BALL FIELDS. THEY SWITCHED OUT TO LED LIGHTS IN OUR BALL FIELDS OUR SOFTBALL BASEBALL ALL ROSE TENNIS CENTER.

THOSE LIGHTS. OKAY. AND SO AS PART OF THIS PROPOSAL, ARE THEY CHANGING OUT THE LIGHTS IN THE BALLPARK? NO, NO, WE DID THAT IN THE LAST PHASE. THERE'S JUST MORE OF A SAVINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THERE'S A DISCONNECT HERE. AND I'LL TAKE FAULT ON HERE.

THE SAVINGS HERE THAT ARE BEING ATTRIBUTED TO THIS PROPOSAL, THIS PROJECT, THIS AGREEMENT ARE SAVINGS THAT WE ARE GETTING THROUGH ANOTHER AGREEMENT ALREADY. SO IT'S IT'S SOMEWHAT IRRELEVANT TO THIS PROPOSAL, BUT WE'RE WE'RE SAYING, HEY, THE SAVINGS THAT WE GOT FROM THIS OTHER CONTRACT WE'RE GOING TO PUT IN THIS AGREEMENT, AND IT MAKES IT LOOK BETTER, RIGHT? WHERE AM I? WHERE AM I LOSING? WHERE? WHERE AM I WRONG HERE? SO THERE'S A A SCHEDULE THAT SHOWS THE PRIOR PROJECT PHASE FOR THIS IS ON TWO PAGES PRIOR.

AND SO THEY WANTED TO CLARIFY THE PERFORMANCE OF THAT PROJECT SEPARATE FROM THIS PROJECT.

SO THEY MAY HAVE KIND OF CLOUDED THE WATER A LITTLE BIT THERE.

OKAY. SO PHASE FOUR WOULD HAVE BEEN THOSE IMPROVEMENTS AT THE PARKS.

RIGHT. AND THAT INCLUDE YOU KNOW, OVER A THOUSAND OF THESE LARGE BALL FIELD LIGHTS.

THERE ARE 1500 WATTS EACH. THOSE GOT REDUCED BY ABOUT 50%.

SO THERE WAS A MASSIVE DEMAND SAVINGS. AND THAT'S WHAT'S SHOWING UP ON THAT, RIGHT? IT DOES QUITE A BIT ECLIPSE THE SAVINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE BUILDINGS AS FAR AS DEMAND, ALTHOUGH THERE'S A LOT THERE.

SO I THINK THAT'S KIND OF CLOUDING THE WATER A LITTLE BIT. BUT IF YOU GO BACK TWO PAGES, IT SHOWS THE PERFORMANCE OF PHASE FOUR AND PHASE FIVE.

I THINK THAT'S KIND OF THE YOU'RE LOOKING AT NUMBER THREE. GUARANTEE PHASE.

PHASE FOUR ON THE LEFT AND THEN PHASE FIVE IN THE MIDDLE.

NON-MEASURED. SAVINGS TO THE RIGHT. OKAY. YES, SIR.

RIGHT. AND. YEAH. SO WHICH I UNDERSTAND THE PHASE FOUR.

[00:35:04]

PHASE FIVE. BUT TWO PAGES FORWARD SCHEDULE TWO, WHICH IS WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO LOOK AT THIS PROJECT.

THE PROJECTED SAVINGS FROM EACH SCOPE OF WORK IS PRESENTED IN THE TABLE BELOW.

SHOULD WE? ARE YOU SAYING WE SHOULD IGNORE SCHEDULE TWO D.

THAT DOES NOT. THAT DOES NOT FACTOR IN. IS THAT FAIR? WELL, SINCE THESE SOME OF THESE SAVINGS ARE TRACKED ON UTILITY METERS.

AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK AND HAVE ADDITIONAL SAVINGS FROM THE HVAC IMPROVEMENTS.

WE HAVE TO COME BACK AND QUANTIFY THE ORIGINAL SAVINGS VERSUS WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE CREDIT FOR SAVINGS AND BE OVERAGGRESSIVE.

SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DOCUMENTED THE PRIOR PROJECT SAVINGS.

RIGHT. SO FOR THIS CONTRACT. SHOULD WE CONSIDER THE MASSIVE ANNUAL PROJECTED SAVINGS LISTED IN THIS SCHEDULE FOR PARK LIGHTING? IT'S NOT A PART OF THE SCOPE OF WORK, BUT IT'S JUST CLARIFYING THE PHASE FOR SAVINGS, WHICH ARE OVERPERFORMING.

AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THEY WANTED TO SHOW AND QUANTIFY.

HERE IS THE TOTAL BENEFIT. OKAY. BUT THOSE SAVINGS ARE NOT CALCULATED TO THIS PROJECT TO THIS PARTICULAR PHASE.

PHASE FIVE WHAT'S BEING CONSIDERED TODAY? NO.

OKAY. EVEN THOUGH IT'S LISTED HERE AS PART OF. OKAY.

EXACTLY. WELL, THE METERS ARE ALL THE SAME, SO YOU HAVE TO KIND OF ADD TOGETHER WHAT IS THE ACTUAL SAVINGS OF ALL THAT.

SO WE DON'T. SO ESTIMATE ANYTHING. AGAIN, JUST TO BE CLEAR.

NO PART OF THIS PROJECT, PHASE FIVE, IN PROJECTING THE ANNUAL SAVINGS, IS CONSIDERING THE SAVINGS THAT WE ARE GETTING FROM THE STREET LIGHTING, PARK LIGHTING BY CHANGING OUT THE LEDS, WHICH WE ALREADY HAVE IN AGREEMENT WITH AEP ON TO DO.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES. OKAY. RIGHT. IN THAT PHASE FIVE SAVINGS, THOSE ARE NOT PART OF THAT PHASE.

OKAY. AND SO THESE SAVINGS PROJECTED IN THIS PHASE FIVE ARE JUST FROM THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE ADDRESSED, NOT IN THAT SCHEDULE THAT'S INCLUDED, BUT IN THE LISTED PROJECTS ABOVE.

CORRECT. OKAY. AND THEN MAINTENANCE, I BELIEVE THE WARRANTY.

CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. I THINK I SAW MAYBE AN EMAIL FROM FROM ONE OF YOU.

WARRANTY IS ONLY FOR ONE YEAR. DID I READ THAT CORRECT? TYPICALLY. OKAY. SO THIS PROJECT OR FINANCING AND ALL THAT STUFF IS, FOR, WHAT, 20 YEARS? AND THEN THE CALCULATIONS ARE FOR 25 YEARS OUT.

BUT WARRANTY ISSUED BY BY Y'ALL IS ONLY FOR ONE YEAR, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. MAINTENANCE. IS THAT HANDLED BY THE CITY OR THAT'S HANDLED BY YOU GUYS AS WELL AFTER INSTALLATION? SO WITH THE WARRANTY, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT LIKE HVAC EQUIPMENT AS AN EXAMPLE, THE LIGHTING THAT INCLUDES PARTS AND LABOR FOR THAT ONE YEAR FOR THE ONE YEAR.

SO YEAR THREE CITY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING THE UNITS.

CORRECT? YES, SIR. FROM A NOT JUST A WEAR AND TEAR PERSPECTIVE, BUT WITH THE WIND OF WEST TEXAS, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF DUST. IF THE UNITS ARE DOWNGRADED BECAUSE OF DUST, IS THAT SOMETHING WHERE PER THIS CONTRACT, Y'ALL CAN COME BACK AND SAY, WELL, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE SAVINGS THAT WE PROJECTED BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PROPERLY MAINTAINING THEM BECAUSE OF THE DUST OF WEST TEXAS.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IS THAT A FAIR CONCERN? AND, LESLIE, THAT MAY BE AN ANSWER FOR YOU. YES.

WELL, WE ACTUALLY HAVE A SEPARATE CONTRACT FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF OUR HVAC AND A LOT OF OUR ITEMS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE FULFILLING OUR OBLIGATION ON MAINTENANCE.

THE WAY THE CONTRACT IS WRITTEN, AS LONG AS WE'RE STAYING WITHIN CERTAIN PARAMETERS, AS FAR AS MAINTAINING OUR EQUIPMENT, THE SAVINGS IS GUARANTEED. IF WE CHOSE TO SAY NO, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT IN THE ANY MORE, WE WANT TO SET THE AIR CONDITIONING TEMPERATURE AT 60 VERSUS 70, AND THAT'S OUTSIDE THE SCOPE.

AND SO THEREFORE THEY ARE NOT HELD TO THE SAVINGS AT THAT POINT.

AS LONG AS WE'RE STAYING WITHIN THE PARAMETERS, THEN THE SAVINGS IS GUARANTEED.

OKAY. ON THE SAVINGS PART, AGAIN, THIS IS GOING IN.

THAT WAS A BIG PART OF THIS AGREEMENT. YOU'RE SAYING DON'T FOCUS ON THE SAVINGS, FOCUS ON ON THE ONE FELL SWOOP.

ON THE SAVINGS PART 817,000. THAT'S THE CAPITAL AVOIDANCE.

BASICALLY THE ARGUMENT. HEY, REPLACE HIM NOW, THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL SAVE IN ENERGY SAVINGS BY HAVING MORE EFFICIENT OR OR WHAT IS THAT CAPITAL COST AVOIDANCE. NOW IS THAT A FINANCING SAVE A FINANCE INTEREST SAVE OR WHAT ARE YOU CALCULATING THAT ON.

NORMALLY I WILL SAY JUST LET ME LET ME TAKE THE 817IN GENERAL IF YOU WERE TO PAY FOR THIS PROJECT OUT OF CASH, THE CITY WOULD NOT WANT TO CLAIM ANY CAPITAL COST AVOIDANCE SAVINGS.

IT'S REALLY JUST SAYING IF WE WERE TO BUDGET FOR THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE TO REPLACE THE ELEVATOR EQUIPMENT, THE HVAC EQUIPMENT, THE BUILDING AUTOMATION SYSTEM EQUIPMENT, ALL OF THAT, THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE COST OF THAT OF OF BEING ABLE TO TO TACKLE ALL

[00:40:02]

THOSE ITEMS? AND IT'S ONLY CLAIMING THAT BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS ARE USING A DEBT SERVICE POTENTIALLY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM OR TO FUND THIS PROJECT.

AND SO THAT IS BASICALLY SAYING, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT THE COST WOULD BE IF THEY HAD TO REPLACE THAT TO TO COVER THE DEBT SERVICE WITH SAVINGS.

BY LAW, THE DEBT SERVICE HAS TO BE COVERED BY SAVINGS.

AND SO THAT CAPITAL COST AVOIDANCE IS JUST SAYING, HERE'S WHAT YOU GUYS WOULD AVOID IN COST BY BUYING OR OR DOING ANY OF THE WORK BY ITSELF.

IT'S NOT A WE NEVER CLAIM OR TELL ANYBODY THAT, HEY, THIS CAPITAL COST IS SAVINGS.

THAT'S RIGHT BACK IN YOUR POCKET. THAT'S COMING DIRECTLY FROM SOMETHING YOU'RE SPENDING CURRENTLY.

IT'S REALLY JUST A FUTURE BUDGETARY SAVINGS BY NOT HAVING TO DO THIS WORK IN THE FUTURE OR IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

OKAY, SO IT'S NOT AVOIDING INTEREST. YOU'RE NOT SAYING, HEY, IF YOU DO IT NOW, AS IN ONE FELL SWOOP, YOU'LL AVOID 817,000 A YEAR IN INTEREST CHARGES.

NO, NO. OKAY. IT'S MORE JUST EMERGENCY REPLACEMENTS.

THE STUFF THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH AS YOU GO THROUGH. AND. AND I COULD SEE IF IT WAS A FLUCTUATING NUMBER, BUT IT'S ZEROED OUT FROM 1 TO 5. AND THEN YEAR SIX, IT'S 117,000 EVERY YEAR FOR 20 YEARS UNTIL YEAR 25.

HOW IS THAT NUMBER ARRIVED AT? SO WE'RE USING THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH THE ITEMS THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE, RIGHT. AND THEN THINKING, OKAY, WELL, IF YOU WERE TO TRY TO CONQUER THAT TODAY, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE IN THAT COST? AND THEN BEING ABLE TO EXTRAPOLATE IT OVER 20 YEARS THAT THAT NUMBER IS JUST CALCULATED IN THERE.

YOU'RE JUST TAKING THE TOTAL NUMBER AND DIVIDING IT BY 20. YEAH. JUST CALCULATING IT IN THERE TO COVER WHAT YOU ARE, WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE TAKING OUT FOR DEBT SERVICE AND THEN BEING ABLE TO OVERCOME THE DEBT SERVICE WITH THAT COST OF AVOIDANCE.

YEAH. AND THEN ON THE EXCESS SAVINGS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT AGAIN? TREAT ME AS IF I'M A FIVE YEAR OLD. EXCESS SAVINGS CLAUSE.

CLAUSE 1.2. LET ME LOOK AT THE PAGE NUMBER. I THINK I WROTE IT DOWN HERE 158 OF THE PACKET.

SO AGAIN, I KNOW YOU'RE PRESENTING WITH, HEY, DON'T FOCUS ON THE SAVINGS.

YES, BUT THIS IS STILL A KEY COMPONENT OF THAT EXCESS SAVINGS.

ADDRESSED IN ONE POINT, I THINK IT'S 158 AND ONE 58TH MAY BE ADDRESSING ON THE WATER.

SO THAT WOULD BE ITEM NINE, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S ALSO IN THIS, IN THIS PROPOSAL AS WELL.

ON EXCESS SAVINGS. AND I CAN PULL IT UP. IS IT A DEFINITION OF SAVINGS? YES, IT'S IN THE DEFINITIONS. OKAY, LET ME SEE.

AND IT SAYS EXCESS SAVINGS MEANS THE AMOUNT, IF ANY, BY WHICH ACTUAL SAVINGS EXCEED THE GUARANTEED CUMULATIVE SAVINGS TO DATE.

AND THEN IT'S REDLINED, INCLUDING ANY ACTUAL SAVINGS ACHIEVED PRIOR TO THE SAVINGS GUARANTEE COMMENCEMENT DATE.

ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW WHAT? I KNOW WHERE IT'S AT. SORRY. SO I HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING FROM THAT, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.

YEAH. SO OUR TYPICAL AGREEMENTS WITH YOU GUYS.

WE DO HAVE A LOT MORE SAVINGS, MEASURED SAVINGS THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT.

AND IN THOSE IN THOSE SITUATIONS, ACTUALLY ALL PHASE ONE THROUGH FOUR.

AND THOSE SITUATIONS, IF THERE WERE EXCESS SAVINGS, THAT'S HOW THEY WOULD BE HANDLED IN THAT SITUATION. WITH THIS PROJECT, I WOULDN'T BE LOOKING OR BE THINKING ABOUT EXCESS SAVINGS COMING INTO PLAY BECAUSE OF WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, RIGHT. THE SAVINGS THAT ARE REALLY BEING MEASURED OR UNMEASURED ARE REALLY THE ONES THAT ARE THE IN THAT IN THAT TABLE FOR PHASE FIVE.

AND SO EXTRA SAVINGS. I DO NOT SEE THAT COMING INTO PLAY FOR THIS PARTICULAR PHASE NOW, BECAUSE YOU'VE ALSO BECAUSE WE ARE COMBINING THE GUARANTEE OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR, BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S ALL KOSHER.

IT ALL WORKS TOGETHER. THAT DOES. NOW IT'S STILL TAKING THE DEFINITION OF EXCESS SAVINGS FOR PHASE FOUR TOO.

SO EVERYTHING WE'RE STILL TRACKING IN PHASE FOUR AND THAT IS STILL TRACKING BECAUSE WE DID PHASE 4 IN 2019 AND THAT WAS AS WELL 20 YEAR GUARANTEE.

THAT'S ACTUALLY WHERE YEAR ZERO STARTS FROM. SO YOU WERE SAYING 25 YEARS.

BUT YEAR ZERO STARTS FROM ONE. PHASE FOUR STARTED WHICH WAS IN 2019 OKAY.

AND SO THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE FIVE YEARS ZEROED OUT.

EXACTLY. AND THAT'S WHY IT'S STILL A 20 YEAR GUARANTEE FOR EVERYTHING.

THAT'S WHERE THAT THE SAVINGS WILL CONTINUE TO BE MEASURED IN.

THE EXCESS SAVINGS MAY COME INTO PLAY IN THAT MEASURED SAVINGS APPROACH THAT OCCURRED IN PHASE FOUR.

OKAY. SO THIS IS A LOT OF THIS IS MORE EFFICIENCY OF ASSOCIATING PHASE FOUR AND PHASE FIVE TOGETHER ON THE SAVING SIDE RIGHT.

BECAUSE YOU'RE NOW STILL YOU'RE STILL DEALING WITH SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC OUR PERFORMANCE ASSURANCE AND OUR TEAM THAT'S MEASURING THE SAVINGS AND VERIFYING IT FROM PHASE FOUR.

AND WE'RE JUST MAKING SURE EVERYTHING IS ACCOUNTED FOR.

NOTHING IS DOUBLE COUNTED ON OUR SIDE. THE CITY IS GOT EVERYTHING ACCURATE FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

SO SOME OF THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE IS STILL ASSOCIATED WITH THAT TO KEEP THAT IN CHECK.

AND THEN FINALLY AND TRAVIS ISN'T HERE, I WON'T SAY ONE MORE QUESTION BECAUSE HE LIKES TO KEEP COUNT OF HOW MANY TIMES I SAY QUESTION,

[00:45:06]

BUT THESE ARE GOOD. SO ON PHASE FOUR WE SHOWED A DECREASE OF 2020 7.5%. WHAT WAS THE JUST SO WE CAN LOOK BACK, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE PROJECTIONS FOR PHASE FIVE AND WE'RE SAYING, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO SAVE X X NUMBER OF DOLLARS, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE YOU THIS MORE EFFICIENT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. JUST AS KIND OF A TRACK RECORD LOOKING BACK. SO IT'S A 27.5% SAVINGS IN DECREASE.

WHAT WAS AT THAT TIME BEING PROPOSED AS THE PERCENTAGE OF SAVINGS THAT WOULD WAS HOW DID IT STACK UP? HOW DID IT MEASURE UP? DO YOU REMEMBER, RYAN? I DON'T KNOW OFFHAND, BUT THAT WAS A LOT OF LED LIGHTING.

SO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT 25 TO 30% TYPE RANGE.

SO THAT SOUNDS ON TARGET. OKAY. THE EXACT NUMBER IN FRONT OF ME.

OKAY. AND WE DO TRACK THAT GUARANTEE. WE DO TRACK THE SAVINGS, THE EVERY METER AND MEET WITH THE CITY ANNUALLY, ALL THE CITY STAFF ANNUALLY TO SHOW THEM THE SAVINGS THAT ARE BEING ACHIEVED AND, AND TRACK IT EVERY YEAR TO SHOW THAT HOW THAT 27.5 OCCURRED.

SO WHEN YOU WHEN YOU'RE TRACKING ON THE BASELINE IS THE BASELINE STARTING FROM PHASE FOUR.

SPEAKING FOR PHASE FIVE. NOW WE'RE ON SEPARATE PROPOSAL, JUST THIS AGREEMENT FOR TRACKING THE HEY YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE THIS AMOUNT.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE THIS MUCH MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT.

IT'S GOING TO BE A 30% OR WHATEVER THAT PERCENTAGE IS, IS THAT NUMBER THAT YOU GUYS ARE USING TO PROJECT THIS AS THE BASELINE? IS THAT FROM PHASE FOUR AND YOU'RE JUST CONTINUING ON FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS? THAT'S CORRECT. SO THAT. THE WHY NOT START IT FROM PHASE FIVE. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MUCH MORE ACCURATE.

AND WE'VE WE'VE HAD WILD INCREASES FROM 2019 THAT WOULD CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THAT WOULD SKEW THE BASE WAY HIGH.

AND THEN OUR EFFICIENCY WOULD BE HERE. AND YOU CAN CLAIM, OH YEAH, WE SAVED THIS AMOUNT OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY.

BUT THAT'S JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE USING 2019 NUMBERS WHICH WOULD GO MUCH HIGHER.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WHY ARE WE NOT USING THE THE NUMBERS FOR PROJECT FIVE STARTING NOW? BECAUSE THE BASELINE IS GOING TO BE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT. AND THAT'S WHERE THE COST SAVINGS ARE CALCULATED FROM. CORRECT. RIGHT. BUT THOSE COST SAVINGS, THE NEW COST SAVINGS THAT THEY'RE NOT IGNORING THE WORK THAT HAPPENED IN PHASE FOUR. SO THE BASELINE WE HAVE TO HAVE A BASELINE.

AND WE LIKE TO KEEP A BASELINE AS STANDARDIZED.

AND SO THE BASELINE FOR PHASE FIVE IS USING THE SAME NUMBERS, BUT IT'S INCLUDING ALL OF THE LEDS RETROFITS AND ALL OF THAT WORK THAT'S COME BEFORE.

SO THAT THAT AEP DID. WELL, THESE ARE RETROFITS WITHIN THE CITY PARKS, THE FIELD LIGHTING AND THE BUILDINGS.

SO THIS IS CITY OWNED LIGHTING. OKAY. SO NOT THE 8700 THAT'S IN THE SCHEDULE.

NO, THAT'S THAT'S FOR THE THAT'S FOR THE PARK LIGHTING.

THE FIELD LIGHTING IS NOT AEP LIGHTS. OKAY. THOSE ARE NOT STREET LIGHTS.

OKAY. SO AEP DOESN'T DO ANY CHANGES IN THE PARKS.

THEY'RE NOT INVOLVED IN THIS AT ALL IN IN THIS PROPOSAL.

BUT I'M SAYING IN PHASE FOUR WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE REFERENCING RIGHT. OKAY. THE AEP HAS LIGHTS IN THE PARKS BUT VERY FEW.

THEY'RE BASICALLY PATHWAY LIGHTS. IT'S JUST IT'S VERY LIMITED THERE.

OKAY. AND SO THE BASELINE THAT'S THAT IS CAUSE FOR FOR CONCERN FOR ME.

IF OUR BASELINE IS FROM 2019 BECAUSE THEN USING THOSE NUMBERS, ANY AMOUNT OF SAVINGS CHANGE IS CAN BE CALCULATED AS A ENERGY SAVINGS EFFICIENCY. AND THEN YOU WILL ALWAYS MEET THAT BASELINE.

CAN I ASK A QUESTION REAL QUICK? OKAY. WHAT I HEARD EARLIER IS THAT THE PART OF THE REASON YOU'RE GOING BACK THAT FAR IS BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THE SAME METER.

AND SO YOU'RE HAVING TO MEASURE HAVING TO DO COMPARISONS AGAINST WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE YOU STARTED DOING THE EFFICIENCIES TO WHAT GOES THROUGH PHASE FOUR AND PHASE FIVE, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL IN THE SAME METER. THAT'S CORRECT. IGNORE PHASE FOUR.

THEN YOU'RE NOT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE IMPACT PHASE FOUR DID IN ADDITION TO WHAT PHASE FIVE DOES.

THEY DON'T WANT TO DOUBLE COUNT THE SAVINGS AND COUNCIL MEMBER REAGAN, TO YOUR QUESTION, IF THE INPUT FOR WHAT WE WERE PAYING FOR ENERGY CHANGE, WHICH CHANGE HAD GONE UP OVER SINCE 2019, I THINK YOU WOULD BE 100% CORRECT, BUT OUR RATE OF ELECTRICITY HASN'T CHANGED AND WON'T CHANGE UNTIL 2030 SOMETHING BECAUSE WE HAVE. WE NEGOTIATED SEVERAL YEARS AGO VERY FAVORABLE ENERGY RATES.

WE'RE PAYING UNDER $0.05 PER THOUSAND KILOWATT ALL IN RIGHT NOW.

SO IT'S A GREAT GREAT FOR THE TAXPAYER. WE'RE GOING TO LEVERAGE THAT AS LONG AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

SO WHAT THESE ARE DOING THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE CONSUMPTION HOW MUCH ENERGY IS BEING USED. AND THAT WILL CHANGE.

AND WHEN IT GOES DOWN BECAUSE THE RATE ISN'T CHANGING, YOU ARE ACCURATELY CALCULATING YOUR SAVINGS POTENTIAL WITH PHASE FIVE AND PHASE FOUR.

WE'RE NOT OVERINFLATING THOSE NUMBERS BECAUSE THE THE THE RATE OF CONSUMPTION, THE CHARGE THAT'S BEING MADE ON A CONSUMABLE.

WHAT HASN'T CHANGED? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS ANSWER YOUR QUESTION OR NOT, BASED ON THE THE LONG TERM AGREEMENT THAT THE CITY HAS NOT NOT THE OUTSIDE RATES OUT

[00:50:07]

THERE, OUR HAVE OBVIOUSLY INCREASED. YEAH, WE'RE ON A FIXED COST AND ARE A FIXED RATE WELL INTO THE 2030S I THINK EVEN 2038.

AND SO WHERE I WISH I COULD GET THAT RATE AS A HOMEOWNER, BY THE WAY, IT'S A GREAT IT'S A HECK OF A DEAL.

BUT YES, ELECTRIC RATES HAVE GONE UP SUBSTANTIALLY SINCE 2019, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT THE SAVINGS THAT AS A COUNCIL WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON.

IT SHOULD BE JUST DO IT IN ONE FELL SWOOP. SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ON THAT, YES, WHEN I PRESENTED THE CONCEPT OF THIS AT THE COUNCIL RETREAT, IF YOU GO BACK AND WATCH ME, I WILL SAY THE SAVINGS DON'T PAY FOR THIS PROJECT.

ON THE EARLIER PHASES, PHASE ONE AND TWO, THEY THEY DID PAY A LOT MORE OF THE PROJECT THAN WAS ORIGINALLY DONE.

WE HAVE CAPTURED ALL THE LOW HANGING FRUIT THAT'S OUT THERE IN THE ORGANIZATION.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE'RE PUSHING THIS SO MUCH IS BECAUSE THESE HVAC EQUIPMENT THAT'S BEING REPLACED WITH THIS, WHICH IS THE MOST OF PHASE FIVE HERE. HARD TO GET PARTS FOR.

YOU CAN'T FIND THE REFRIGERANT EXCEPT FOR EXCEPTIONALLY HIGH COSTS BECAUSE IT'S OLD.

IT'S JUST OLD STUFF. THEY DON'T MAKE IT ANYMORE. IF YOU DO GET IT, IT'S IT'S RECONSTITUTED OR RECYCLED.

AND THEN THERE'S A DELAY IN GETTING PARTS. SO IF IT'S 103 DEGREES OUTSIDE AND THE HVAC SYSTEM FAILS AND IT TAKES YOU 60 TO 90 DAYS TO GET THE PART IN.

WELL, I STILL HAVE PEOPLE IN THAT BUILDING. THE PUBLIC IS STILL USING THAT FACILITY.

AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT KIND OF A I WANT TO CALL IT A CLIFF BECAUSE THAT'S OVERLY DRAMATIC.

BUT ALL OF THESE UNITS ARE END OF LIFE. AND SO THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, AVOID THE CAPITAL COST AVOIDANCE GOING FORWARD.

YOU COULD ABSOLUTELY DO THIS OVER TIME. THERE'S THERE'S THERE'S NO ARGUMENT THAT ANYBODY COULD MAKE SAYING IS ONE OPTION BETTER THAN THE OTHER.

BUT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS LEAN BACK INTO THE COUNCIL PRIORITIES OF MAINTAINING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT THE COUNCIL RETREAT, WHAT WE'RE HERE TODAY, IS IT KIND OF ACTUALIZING THAT CONVERSATION.

BUT THE SAVINGS DON'T PAY FOR THIS PROJECT. AND THEY REALLY WEREN'T EVER INTENDED TO.

YEAH, I THINK ABOUT THE SAVINGS ON THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING COMPARED WITH NOT DOING IT BECAUSE THESE CHARGES, THIS COST IS NOT OPTIONAL.

WE'RE GOING TO PAY IT. WE COULD PAY MORE IF WE WAIT FOR THE CATASTROPHIC FAILURE AND TAKE A REACTIVE APPROACH TO MAINTAINING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. OR WE COULD DO THIS IN A DELIBERATE AND COORDINATED FASHION, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. SO IT'S NOT SAVINGS THAT WE CAN PUT IN OUR POCKET.

IT'S NOT AN INCREASE IN THE IN THE CASH FLOW FOR THE BUDGET, BUT IT'S A SMART, MANAGED WAY TO SPEND THE TAXPAYERS MONEY AND AVOID ADDITIONAL COSTS BY NOT PLANNING.

SO IT'S COST AVOIDANCE OF INACTION IS THE ACTUAL SAVINGS.

WELL, IT'S IN MY MIND IT'S NOT HEY, YOU EITHER DO THIS OR YOU DON'T, AND YOU WAIT FOR THE CLIFF OR YOU WAIT FOR EVERYTHING TO FAIL, RIGHT? OH. DAY TWO. EVERYTHING'S DONE. WE GOT TO REPLACE IT ALL.

THIS IS MORE. HEY, WE'RE SEEING THAT WE NEED TO REPLACE THESE THINGS BECAUSE SOME ARE 13, SOME ARE 15.

SOME ARE 18 YEARS OLD. OKAY, FINE. LET'S REPLACE THEM WITHIN OUR BUDGET.

STRATEGICALLY, WE'RE STILL GOING TO GET THOSE ENERGY SAVINGS.

JUST IT WON'T BE ALL ONE BIG FLASH. IT WILL BE AS WE BRING THEM ONLINE.

THE ADVANTAGE IS SAVING JUST ON THIS PROJECT.

YOU KNOW, PUTTING ASIDE THE ITEM NUMBER TEN FOR A SECOND, JUST ON THIS PROJECT, SAVING $6 MILLION IN IN INTEREST.

AND SO THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS HERE. IT'S NOT WELL, WE EITHER DO THIS OR THE CITY FALLS OFF A CLIFF AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY AC.

IT'S NO. DO WE STRATEGICALLY IMPLEMENT THESE AND CHANGE THESE OUT USING CASH OR OTHER FUNDS TO CHANGE THEM OUT BEFORE THEY FAIL? BUT BUT NOT ALL IN ONE FELL SWOOP AND INCUR 6 MILLION IN DEBT.

IN ADDITIONAL DEBT, 16 MILLION TOTAL IN DEBT.

JUST IN THIS PROJECT. WATER IS A SEPARATE MATTER.

SO THAT'S THAT'S HOW I'M HOW I'M VIEWING IT. AND I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AS WELL.

HEY, LET'S GET THIS DONE. WE GOT TO DO IT. LET'S DO IT.

I MY PREFERENCE IS WHEN WE CAN AVOID DEBT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT THE GREATEST TIME TO TAKE OUT DEBT INTEREST RATE WISE. WHO KNOWS IF THEY'LL GO UP OR DOWN? AS ROBERT LIKES TO SAY, NO ONE HAS A CRYSTAL BALL.

BUT IF WE CAN AVOID DEBT AND DO THIS STRATEGICALLY IMPLEMENTING IMPLEMENTING THE THE THE NEW UNITS, FOR ME THAT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE NOW FROM A FROM A SAVINGS PERSPECTIVE, THEY DON'T BALANCE.

THEY DON'T YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T EQUAL OUT. AND SO FOR ME NOW THE EQUATION IS DO WE TAKE OUT 16 MILLION ON DEBT.

DO WE USE OUR FUNDS AND CHANGE THESE OUT OVER TIME.

AND THESE ARE TOWARDS THE END OF THESE ARE OLD UNITS.

SO I'M NOT UNDER A DELUSION THAT OH THESE YOU KNOW, WE JUST PUT THEM IN LAST YEAR AND WE'RE REPLACING NEW ONES,

[00:55:03]

ENERGY EFFICIENT ONES WITH, YOU KNOW, SAME ENERGY EFFICIENT ONES.

I JUST DON'T NECESSARILY IF WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE SAVINGS PART, I DON'T SEE THE THE NEED IN TAKING OUT AN ADDITIONAL $6 MILLION IN INTEREST WHEN WE COULD DO IT MORE FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE AND REPLACE THEM AS NEEDED.

THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY HEAD'S AT. I SEE YOUR POINT, BRIAN.

I THINK I JUST LEAN TOWARDS AN AVERSION TOWARDS INCURRING MORE DEBT.

BUT. BUT YOU HAVE A VALID POINT. I'M. I'M WEIGHING THAT.

BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M STRUGGLING WITH IT. THE ONE PART OF THAT EQUATION I MAY ADD TO THAT, IF THAT'S OKAY, IS THE COST OF ALL THESE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS NOT GOING DOWN.

IT'S GOING UP. AND ACTUALLY PRETTY SUBSTANTIALLY 5 TO 10% PER YEAR.

SO IF YOU GUYS WAIT TO DO ANY OF THESE ITEMS, YOU'RE INCURRING AN ADDITIONAL COST OF INFLATION, OF ACTUALLY DEALING WITH REPLACING THESE ITEMS. WELL, AND HOPEFULLY OUR, YOU KNOW, OUR YOU KNOW, BUDGET TYPICALLY INCREASES ALONG SAME PERCENTAGE HOPEFULLY.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, YES, THE COST MAY INCREASE NEXT YEAR.

BUT HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, OUR BUDGET TRACKS WITH THAT OR WE ALLOCATE AS WE GO.

THOSE KIND OF, THOSE KIND OF INCREASES. SO YES, THE COST INCREASES, BUT TYPICALLY ALSO NOT ALWAYS WE SAW LAST YEAR, BUT TYPICALLY OUR BUDGET WILL INCREASE AS WELL.

SO BUT IT'S A FAIR POINT. AND YOU ARE GETTING A LOAN LESS POINT.

YOU ARE GETTING A SHARED CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT. JUST HAVING SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC CONSTRUCTION MANAGE ALL OF THESE ITEMS. SO INSTEAD OF HAVING SOMEBODY TO MANAGE THIS AND SOMEBODY TO MANAGE THAT AND SOMEBODY MANAGE THE OTHER ITEMS, NOW YOU'RE SAVING ON THE REALLY THE LABOR OF SITE SUPERVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION ON THAT PART AS WELL.

YEAH. AND PROCUREMENT, THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD IS IF THAT'S WHERE THE COUNCIL GOES, YOU NEED TO DIRECT STAFF TO PUT $877,000 A YEAR ANNUALLY AWAY AND REPLACE THESE OVER TIME, BECAUSE THAT'S THE CAPITAL COST OF GORDON'S. OTHERWISE IT WON'T GET DONE.

AND IT'S 25 YEARS OF GOVERNMENT EXPERIENCE. IT JUST GETS BURIED.

THAT DOESN'T GET DONE. THAT'S ANNUALLY. THAT'S NOT GOING TO GET THEM DONE. THEY'RE GOING TO FAIL BEFORE THEN. THEY MIGHT HAVE 2 OR $3 MILLION WORTH OF FAILURES THAT WE DON'T THAT ARE NOT BUDGETED. EVEN WITH THE RAISING, RISING BUDGET THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO REPLACE.

ONE FINAL THING. I'LL ADD ONE MORE QUESTION, MR. REAGAN, BUT IS AISD WORKED WITH SCHNEIDER IN THE PAST, AND THEY HAVE A CREDIT AVAILABLE THAT THEY ARE GENEROUSLY APPLYING TO THEIR PHASE FIVE OR PHASE SIX, I THINK.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT REALLY MATTERS. DO YOU KNOW IT DOES.

IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AND YOU THINK ABOUT THE NEXT ITEM TWO ON THE GENERATOR STUFF THAT'S A CREDIT THAT CAN BE APPLIED THAT WE WON'T HAVE IF WE DON'T DO IT. IS IT A REASON TO DO IT? IT IS NOT.

BUT IT'S I THINK 700. IT'S NORTH OF $750,000 IN CREDIT.

SO THAT'S MONEY THAT THE TAXPAYER OF ABILENE DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY, BECAUSE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT RECEIVED A TAX CREDIT FOR THIS.

AND WE CAN APPLY THAT TO THE CITY OF ABILENE.

AND I'M GRACIOUS FOR DOCTOR KUHN AND THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES AT AISD FOR BEING WILLING TO DO THAT FOR THE QUESTIONS COUNCIL AT THIS TIME. HANG ON A MINUTE. I WANT TO GET TO ONE THING REAL QUICK.

WOULD YOU GUYS TURN TO PAGE OR TO SCHEDULE 1 TO 82? IN MY PACKET. I'M SORRY, WHAT PAGE AGAIN? 80.

81. IN MY PACKET. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S 82 IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S, BUT SCHEDULE ONE.

THE SCHEDULE ONE. PAGE 18. PAGE 18. GOT IT. OH.

I'M SORRY. YEAH, IT'S 81. IN THE OVERALL PACKET.

PAGE 18. YES, SIR. SCHEDULE ONE LISTS THE SCOPE OF WORK FOR PHASE FIVE.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR. GO OVER TO SCHEDULE TWO, PLEASE.

WHAT PAGE IS SCHEDULED? TWO ON ONE. PAGE 32. 32.

THANK YOU. IT STARTS DEFINITIONS. YEAH. SCHEDULE 2D, WHICH IS REFERENCING.

OH, OKAY. THE MEASUREMENT. VERIFICATION. WHAT'S THE FIRST SENTENCE? A. THE PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE IS ESTABLISHED IN SCHEDULE C SHALL CONSIST OF SAVINGS FROM MULTIPLE SCOPES OF WORK. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. PROJECTED SAVINGS FROM EACH SCOPE OF WORK IS PRESENTED IN THE TABLE BELOW.

SO SCHEDULE 2D IS NOT INTENDED TO BE THE SAVINGS ATTACHED TO PHASE FIVE.

IT'S THE SAVINGS OF THE OVERALL PROJECT. PHASE ONE THROUGH SIX.

EVERYTHING IN SCHEDULE C OR SCHEDULE TWO. PART C IS WHAT SHOULD SAY, WHICH IS WHAT'S ON PAGE 38.

OKAY. THANK YOU. VERY GOOD. ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU GENTLEMEN.

THANKS. APPRECIATE IT. AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST? ITEM NINE, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS ERIC BANGS. I'M A 47 YEAR ABILENE RESIDENT.

$500 MILLION, A HALF $1 DOLLARS. THAT'S APPROXIMATELY THE CURRENT DEBT AND INTEREST TO THE CITY

[01:00:06]

OF ABILENE RIGHT NOW. MONEY THAT THE THE CITIZENS WILL BE REQUIRED TO REPAY OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DECADES.

IN MAY, THE CITY WILL PROPOSE A BOND ELECTION FOR $20 MILLION MORE FOR AIRPORT RENOVATIONS AND EQUIPMENT UPDATES.

AS A TAXPAYER, I HAVE RECENTLY BEEN PUT UNDER FINANCIAL OBLIGATION FOR TWO NEW RECREATION CENTERS, A PLANE RAMP AT THE AIRPORT AND NEW ZOO CONSTRUCTION, AND TUCKED AWAY ON PAGES 60 THROUGH 186 OF THE 825 PAGE AGENDA PACKET, ARE TWO NEW OPPORTUNITIES TO GO EVEN FARTHER INTO DEBT.

ITEM NINE ON THE AGENDA WILL COST THE CITY $10,627,520.

ITEM TEN ON THE AGENDA WILL COST THE CITY $15,860,710.

SO LET'S ROUND THAT TO $26 MILLION. NOT ADDING INTEREST.

THE CITY WILL BE ISSUING CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION TO COVER THIS DEBT.

SURPRISE! CITIZENS OF ABILENE, WE WILL GET TO PAY EVEN MORE TAXES.

AND I UNDERSTAND THAT RUNNING A CITY, IT TAKES MONEY.

I GET THAT. WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IS WHY THE ITEMS HAVEN'T BEEN ON REGULAR AGENDA, ON THE REGULAR AGENDA THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AND DISCUSSED AND UNDERSTOOD BY THE CITIZENS OF ABILENE.

PAGE 120 OF THE AGENDA GIVES A. AT THE BOTTOM IT SAYS THIS IS A JANUARY 2024 CONTRACT DATE.

SO APPARENTLY THE CITY IS KNOWN ABOUT THESE ITEMS FOR OVER A YEAR.

PHASE ONE OF THIS PROCESS BEGAN IN 2007. WE'RE NOW AT PHASE FIVE AND SIX.

WHY NOT HAVE HAD THIS OUT IN THE OPEN FOR THE LAST YEAR, THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS? JUST TO SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

HERE'S SOME THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE INSTEAD OF ALL OF A SUDDEN ONE DAY SAY WE NEED TO WE NEED TO SPEND $26 MILLION, $26 MILLION TAKEN OUT AS DEBT, AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF ABILENE CITIZENS ARE NONE THE WISER.

TRANSPARENCY IS IMPORTANT, AND I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD IT HERE.

THANK YOU. STILL IN PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM NINE? SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION FROM COUNCIL? I'D LIKE TO POINT SOMETHING OUT.

THE DEBT THAT WAS INCURRED FOR THE ZOO AND THE REC CENTERS WERE VOTED ON BY THE CITIZENS.

OKAY. SO DON'T DON'T. WE DID NOT GIVE THAT DEBT.

THOSE ARE THE DEBTS THAT THE CITIZENS VOTED FOR.

I MAKE A MOTION. I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT DEBT DOES NOT DIRECTLY TRANSLATE TO INCREASED TAXES.

IS THAT A SECOND? IT SAYS IT RIGHT HERE. AND LET'S NOT HAVE ARGUMENTS WITH THE AUDIENCE, PLEASE.

VERY GOOD. I'LL SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER AND A SECOND BY COUNCILMAN YATES.

WE'RE STILL IN DISCUSSION. I'M ON THE FENCE ON THIS ONE.

JUST FOR ME, KNOWING THAT IT'S EITHER DO IT NOW OR WE ISSUE DEBT.

FOR ME, YOU KNOW, IF A CLIENT CAME TO ME WITH A CONTRACT LIKE THIS, I'M LOOKING AT IT FROM AN ATTORNEY PERSPECTIVE.

I WOULD SAY I NEED MORE TIME TO UNDERSTAND THIS BEFORE I CAN SAY YES OR NO.

LOOKING AT THE CITY AND AND I JUST. I JUST DON'T HAVE A COMFORTABLE ENOUGH FEELING UNDERSTANDING THE PROS AND CONS OF THIS.

NOW, KNOWING THAT THE SAVINGS ARE NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT NOW.

IT'S JUST DO THE DEBT NOW VERSUS DO IT WITHIN BUDGET OVER TIME.

FOR ME, MY DEFAULT IS AVOID DEBT. IF IF WE CAN YOU KNOW, SPEND THE MONEY AS, AS THAT WE HAVE IN THE BUDGET IF POSSIBLE.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, I WOULD BE A NO, BUT I'M I'M OPEN TO COMING AROUND TO THIS.

IF THERE WAS A MAYBE A MORE OF A DISCUSSION BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT MEETING.

BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, I AM NOT COMFORTABLE FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE AND FROM AN UNDERSTANDING PERSPECTIVE TO SAY FROM A BASELINE, FROM A WHATEVER THE COST SAVINGS ARE AND FROM A DEBT, WHAT THE COST OF DEBT THAT WOULD WE WOULD INCUR TO ISSUE THIS BASED ON CURRENT MARKET RATES, THAT THIS IS THE BEST OPTION VERSUS DOING IT AS NEEDED BEFORE THEY FAIL.

I AGREE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. I THINK HERE WE'RE BEING ASKED WHICH METHOD DO WE WANT TO?

[01:05:04]

AND I'M KEEPING IN MIND OUR NEXT ITEM TEN, WHICH IS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, FOR WATER AND A BIGGER ASK FOR ME RIGHT NOW IT'S A NO.

BUT BUT I'M OPEN TO IT AND I UNDERSTAND I'M ON THE FENCE BUT BUT I'M CURRENTLY A NO.

FURTHER DISCUSSION. I'M READY TO VOTE.

ONE NOTE FROM COUNCIL MEMBER REAGAN, BUT THE REST ARE YESES.

SO MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU.

[10. Resolution: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Take Action on Authorizing the City Manager to enter into a Contract for Phase 6 with Schneider Electric Buildings America Inc. (ESCO), for Water Department Improvements (Lesli Andrews)]

WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM TEN. AND, COUNCILMAN YATES, YOU ASKED THIS TO BE PULLED.

YEAH. THE ITEM TEN IS SIMILAR, BUT IT'S DIFFERENT.

AND I THINK I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE THE DIFFERENCES THERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF LESLIE WANTS TO ADDRESS THAT, BUT THIS ONE, AS OPPOSED TO REPLACING EXISTING EQUIPMENT, THAT'S KIND OF A A MANDATORY COST OVER TIME THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY.

THIS ONE IS SIGNIFICANTLY THE MOST OF THE COST IS ADDING CAPABILITY TO OUR WATER TREATMENT PLANTS IN THE FORM OF BACKUP ELECTRIC GENERATORS, WHICH WE CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE. THE IDEA BEHIND THIS, AS ACROSS MUCH OF THE STATE HAS TO DO WITH THE SNOWMAGEDDON. WINTER STORM URI AND THE THE FACT THAT A LOT OF THE STATE WAS CAUGHT KIND OF FLAT FOOTED ON THAT AND OURSELVES INCLUDED. IT HAD NEVER HAPPENED THAT WAY BEFORE.

AND SO NOW IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

SO THIS ONE'S DIFFERENT IN THE SENSE OF THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY EFFICIENCY AND GOOD MANAGEMENT.

THIS IS INCREASED CAPACITY AND CAPABILITY. SO IF I'VE MISSPOKEN ON THAT, PLEASE CORRECT THAT OR IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD.

LESLIE. NO, YOU'RE EXACTLY CORRECT. I WOULD I DON'T HAVE THE PERCENTAGE, BUT ROUGHLY 13 MILLION OF THE 15 MILLION IS TO ADD GENERATORS WHERE WE NEED THEM AT THE PLANTS TO BE ABLE TO KEEP US FUNCTIONING WHEN THERE IS AN EMERGENCY CRISIS.

THANK YOU. PART OF THAT IS A REQUIREMENT BY THE STATE, CORRECT? I WOULD DEFER THAT. YES. THAT IS CORRECT. AND IT WILL BE PAID BACK BY WATER UTILITY CUSTOMERS, NOT BY PROPERTY TAX. SALES TAX. THIS THE PART THAT BELONGS TO THE WATER COMES THROUGH THE WATER RATES, WHICH WAS PAID FOR BY NOT JUST CITIZENS OF ABILENE, BUT THE SURROUNDING AREA THAT BUY WATER FROM ABILENE.

THAT IS CORRECT. EXCELLENT POINT, LESLIE. AFTER.

AFTER 2021, THE STATE TO ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS INCLUDED GRANTS AND FUNDING FOR WATER GENERATORS, BACKUPS, ALL THAT KIND OF GOOD STUFF.

ARE THESE ELIGIBLE FOR THE GRANTS, AND IF SO, CAN WE PURSUE THAT? YES. SOME OF THIS IS ELIGIBLE AND YES, WE ARE PURSUING IT.

SO IF WE ARE AWARDED THE GRANT, WE WILL NOT HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE AS MUCH WITH THE REVENUE FUND.

BUT AT THIS POINT WE DON'T HAVE ANY AWARDS AND IT'S TOO SOON IN THE PROCESS.

BUT THAT'S THEY'RE RUNNING ON THE TRACKS TOGETHER.

OKAY. WOULD WE WOULD WE KNOW BEFORE DEBT IS INCURRED THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO MAKE UP NUMBERS OUT OF THE 15 MILLION.

OH, THE STATE PROVIDES $10 MILLION WORTH. AND SO REALLY, WE ONLY NEED TO FUND 5 MILLION.

WOULD WE KNOW BEFORE WE ISSUE THE DEBT? OR THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE GOT TO ISSUE THE DEBT, AND THEN WE FIND OUT A YEAR LATER THE STATE APPROVES? DO WE KNOW? MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE WE HAVE TO ISSUE ALL OF THE DEBT.

I CAN DOUBLE CHECK THAT, BUT THAT I BELIEVE THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

OKAY. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A HUGE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE AS FAR AS INTEREST BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT 15.

SO THEY WERE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, 7 MILLION IN INTEREST.

IF WE DON'T HAVE TO ISSUE THAT DEBT AND THE STATE WILL JUST FUND IT, THEN THAT'S THAT'S WORTH HOLDING OFF A LITTLE BIT, I WOULD THINK, TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE CORRECT. THERE'S TWO, TWO, TWO SIDES TO THAT.

THERE'S MULTIPLE AVENUES OF GRANT FUNDING. ONE IS THROUGH FEDERAL OPERATIONS. SO THERE'S THE PART OF THIS IS DIAS RESILIENCY.

AND SO THERE'S FEDERAL FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES FOR RESILIENCY.

THE BASE THERE IS A STATE REQUIREMENT TO TO HAVE THIS THE METHOD THAT WAS LAWFUL AND APPROVED BY THE STATE PRIOR TO WINTER STORM URI NO LONGER IS THAT WAY.

SO WE HAVE TO MAKE THESE IMPROVEMENTS. WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO USE ALL THE GRANT DOLLARS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.

WE KNOW IN THE WATER MASTER PLAN THAT THERE'S MANY MORE PROJECTS THAT HAVE TO BE DONE AND WILL BE ISSUING DEBT FOR.

SO IF WE GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE ON THE FEDERAL GRANT, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE'LL BE APPLYING FOR,

[01:10:04]

WE DON'T KNOW YET, BUT IT DOES COME THROUGH AND SAY IT COVERS THE WHOLE THE FULL MEAL DEAL ON THIS.

THOSE DEBT DOLLARS THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED FOR THIS PROJECT COULD BE APPLIED TO OTHER UTILITY PROJECTS TO OFFSET THE AMOUNT OF DEBT WE'D HAVE TO ISSUE FOR OUR PLANT IMPROVEMENTS, FOR EXAMPLE. SO IT'S IT'S YOU ARE CORRECT IN THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN TO ISSUE AS LITTLE DEBT AS POSSIBLE FOR THIS PROJECT. BUT IF WE GET PUT IN A SITUATION WHERE WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT A FEDERAL GRANT, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO TAKE THE LONGEST TO UNDERSTAND, AND IT COMES AFTER THE FACT THAT DEBT CAN BE USED FOR OTHER, OTHER THINGS.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE IN SOME LIMBO WITH THAT, THAT, THAT WE'VE WE'VE ISSUED IT AND IT'S GONE TO WASTE.

WELL, AND MY THINKING IS, YOU KNOW, THAT IN 2021, THE, THE STATES SET ASIDE MONEY OR FUNDED THIS PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY FOR BACKUP GENERATORS. AND SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, OH, IF, IF WE DIDN'T APPLY FOR THAT NOW AND THEN, WE'RE IN ANOTHER PHASE DOING SOMETHING ELSE AND WE SAY, WELL, WE, WE CAN'T GET THAT MONEY BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T FIT THE CRITERIA. WE MISSED OUT ON THAT OPPORTUNITY. WE GOT THE 15 MILLION IN DEBT, BUT NOW WE'VE GOT TO TAKE OUT ADDITIONAL FOR THIS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T APPLY FOR THAT SPECIFIC GRANT. I WANT TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, STAFF IS NORMALLY VERY GOOD.

AND SO THIS WAS JUST THIS IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY AND IT'S JUST THE START.

AND SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE, HEY, THE STATE SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSES IN 2021, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE IN LINE, IF WE CAN, TO GET THAT WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN BE.

THE STATE DIDN'T ISSUE ENOUGH MONEY TO COVER ALL THE JURISDICTIONS IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. THEY'RE FORCING TO DO THIS, TOO. SO IT'S BUT THEY'VE GOT A SURPLUS THIS YEAR AND MAYBE THEY'LL SPEND SOME MORE MONEY ON IT. SO YES, SIR, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO LEVERAGE ALL THE DOLLARS WE CAN.

OKAY. AND THEN JUST ON THE QUESTION TO LESLIE, IF OR NO THAT I ASKED YOU, BUT ROBERT, FOR YOU TO MAYBE GET SOME CLARIFICATION.

SO IF WE APPROVE TODAY AND WE DO, WE WAIT TO ISSUE THE DEBT UNTIL WE'VE HEARD BACK FROM THE GRANT PROGRAM OR WE'VE GOT TO MOVE ON THIS NOW ON THE, ON THE COS IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH. RIGHT. AND I DON'T THINK WE'LL HEAR BACK FROM FEDERAL GRANT OPPORTUNITIES IN TIME.

BUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING TODAY IS NOT ISSUING THE DEBT.

YOU'RE YOU'RE APPROVING THESE AGREEMENTS. PRICES ARE LOCKED IN.

AND THEN WE WILL BEGIN THE PROCESS OF NOTIFYING THE PUBLIC SO THAT THERE'S PROPER NOTIFICATION.

THERE'S COMMENT PERIOD. AND THAT TYPICALLY TAKES WHAT, 60 TO 90 DAYS MAYBE 90.

YEAH, RIGHT. AND SO THE EARLIEST WE'D ISSUE DEBT IS 90 DAYS FROM PROBABLY THE 27TH MEETING.

BUT IT COULD BE LONGER DEPENDING ON WHEN WE HAVE THAT FIRST NOTICE. AND IN THE MEANTIME WE WILL APPLY FOR THESE GRANTS.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH FEDERAL GRANTS IS THAT THEY CAN TAKE A LOT LONGER THAN THAT.

BUT IF WE DO GET NOTICE OF, HEY, YOU'RE GOING TO GET AN AWARD, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THAT HAPPENS, WE CAN PULL BACK ON THE ON THE ISSUANCE.

HAVE WE? YOU'RE REFERENCING THE FEDERAL GRANTS. BUT REALLY WHAT I'M AWARE OF IS THE STATE, THE STATE ONES FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS, OR HAVE WE ALREADY APPLIED FOR THOSE AS PART OF THIS PROCESS SO THAT WE DON'T INCUR THESE CHARGES UNNECESSARILY? WE'RE GOING TO BE I GUESS I'M WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY WITHOUT SAYING IS THAT I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF STATE MONEY. OKAY. BECAUSE THESE BACKUP GENERATORS DON'T QUALIFY FOR THAT GRANT OR THE FUNDING IS NOT THERE ON THE STATE SIDE. YES, SIR. THERE'S A LOT OF HANDS OUT. OKAY? YES, SIR. OKAY. AND WE'RE LOW ON THE ON THE LIST AS FAR AS NEED FOR BACKUP GENERATORS.

WOULD THAT BE FAIR? NO, SIR. I THINK WE NEED THEM JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

IT'S JUST THERE ARE OTHER LARGER JURISDICTIONS ON 35 THAT I THINK GET PRIORITY FOR FUNDING AT TIMES THAN WE DON'T.

OKAY, SIR. GOT IT. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. WELL, AND WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD.

WE'RE GOING TO APPLY FOR ALL THE GRANTS THAT WE CAN. I KNOW STAFF WILL, BUT I THINK IF YOU SEE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW, WE'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO COUNT ON FEDERAL GRANTS AT THIS TIME ANYWAY.

AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST? ITEM TEN. PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

I'M TAMMY FOGLE ABILENE IS A RESIDENT OF ABILENE.

SO LET ME JUST CLARIFY. THIS IS NO WAY A DISCUSSION ABOUT SCHNEIDER, BECAUSE I THINK THEY'RE DELIVERING EXACTLY WHAT WE ASKED FOR.

AND IT'S NOT ADDRESSING THE CITY BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, COUNCILMAN REAGAN.

THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK. I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH WORK GOES INTO 825 PAGES.

AND AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

SO WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THIS. BUT I DO THINK IN MY SHORT TIME I WANTED TO ADDRESS THAT.

IN FACT, IN THE MEMO, I'VE GOT IT RIGHT HERE.

IT SAYS ON ITEM NINE FOR THE 10 MILLION, THE CERTIFICATE OF OBLIGATION, WHICH IS A TYPE OF BOND THAT YOU ALL CAN APPROVE WITHOUT VOTER APPROVAL, WILL BE FUNDED BY PROPERTY TAX TO PAY THE DEBT SERVICE.

SO THAT IS A TAX INCREASE ON THOSE WHO PAY PROPERTY TAXES.

AND ALSO IT INCLUDES SOME IMPROVEMENTS TO THE AIRPORT FOR $892,000, WHICH IS DETERMINED UPON.

IF WE PASS THE BOND FOR THAT OR NOT, IT'LL COME OUT OF THE THE MINOR IMPROVEMENT PROJECT FUND.

THE NUMBER TEN, WHICH THIS DISCUSSION HAS BEEN FABULOUS.

I THINK WE SHOULD DO MORE OF THIS BECAUSE I'VE LEARNED SO MUCH. AND I THINK THE PROBLEM IS, IS THIS GOES ON RESOLUTION, IT'S PASSED AND CONSENT AGENDA.

BY THE TIME YOU'VE ISSUED THE DEBT, WE HAVE 60 TO 90 DAYS.

MOST PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN AWARE TO THE ACTUAL VOTING OF THE ACTUAL ISSUING OF THE BOND.

[01:15:03]

AND SO WE'VE GOT TO GET MORE INFORMATION OUT TO THE PUBLIC SO THAT THEY'RE INFORMED AND THEY DON'T GO, WHAT? WE JUST SPENT $25 MILLION.

WHAT OR HOWEVER IT IS, THE TRANSPARENCY HAS GOT TO IMPROVE SO THAT THE TRUST CAN BE THERE.

AND LIKE WAS ALREADY MENTIONED, WE'VE KNOWN SINCE 2019 WHEN WE STARTED PHASE FOUR.

PHASE FIVE WAS COMING. AND WHY DIDN'T WE DO THE, YOU KNOW, THE DOGE VERSION OF CAPITAL AVOIDANCE BY PUTTING IN $1 MILLION OR USING $1 MILLION OF NYP, NYP IPO TO FUND AND PREPARE FOR THESE PROJECTS.

I JUST FEEL LIKE WE ARE ALL EVERYTHING IS AT END OF LIFE AND WE'RE STRUGGLING HERE.

WHEN I KNOW THE FLEET SERVICES, WE JUST SPENT A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS ON FLEET SERVICES.

THE FUNDING IS THERE FOR FLEET SERVICES. WHY CAN'T THE FUNDING BE THERE FOR THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT THAT IS NEEDED FOR THESE MUCH NEEDED REPAIRS? BECAUSE END OF LIFE 18 YEARS OLD. WE SHOULD HAVE HAD A PLAN IN PLACE BEFORE THIS POINT THAN JUST ISSUING DEBT.

THE LAST THING I WANT TO TOUCH ON IS THE WATER.

MANY PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THEIR SEWER BILL WENT UP.

AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY Y'ALL'S PROBLEM, EXCEPT THAT THE CONSTITUENTS SHOULD KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN.

ITEM TEN IS GOING TO BE PAID BY WATER AND SEWER.

SO WE'RE TAKING THAT OUT OF WHAT WE JUST STARTED GETTING WITH THE SEWER BEING ALREADY BARELY COVERING WHAT IT COSTS.

TO MY KNOWLEDGE, ALSO, WE HAVE ABOUT $300 MILLION COMING UP IN WATER BILLS.

LIKE WE ARE STILL GOING TO BE TAKING OUT DEBT. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST.

THIS IS ONE OF MANY THINGS THAT ARE COMING UP THAT WE'RE NOT PREPARED FOR.

AND I JUST THINK THAT WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A BETTER PLAN OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT CAPITAL PROJECTS ARE GOOD FOR DEBT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE MONEY. WE'RE TAKING IN A LOT OF REVENUE.

HOW ARE WE SPENDING IT? AND WE NEED TO SHARE WITH THE PUBLIC IN A IN A MORE TRANSPARENT WAY WHAT EXACTLY THOSE DOLLARS ARE GOING FOR, SO THAT WE'RE NOT SO STRESSED WHEN WE HEAR OUR TAXES ARE GOING UP AGAIN? THANK YOU. STILL ON THE PUBLIC HEARING. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM TEN? SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. IF NOT, I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR ITEM TEN.

SO MOVED. HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN YATES. SECOND.

SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BEARD. FURTHER DISCUSSION.

WE'RE READY TO VOTE. ALL YESES, MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION CARRIES. I KNOW WE HAVE A LARGE AGENDA, BUT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A TEN MINUTE BREAK. ALL RIGHT.

WE WILL GET STARTED ON THE REGULAR AGENDA. NOW, WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 26.

[26. (Remove from Table) Resolution: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Approving the Special Events Permit Policy (Lesli Andrews)]

EXCUSE ME. THIS IS A MOVE TO REMOVE THE FIRST.

SOMEBODY HAS TO REMOVE IT FROM THE TABLE, I THINK.

OKAY, HERE WE GO. WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 26, AND I WILL ASK FOR A MOTION AND A SECOND TO REMOVE THIS ITEM FROM THE TABLE.

SO MOVED. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN PRICE.

SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BEARD. DISCUSSION.

WE'RE READY TO VOTE. OH, YES. THIS MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION CARRIES. AND I WILL NOW ASK LESLIE ANDREWS, DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECS, TO PRESENT ITEM 26.

HEY, BRIAN, IT'S RIGHT HERE. YOUR STUFF. THERE IT IS.

I KNEW THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR. I'M SORRY. I JUST I KNOW HE WAS LOOKING FOR IT. IT'S RIGHT THERE. LESLIE ANDREWS, DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME UP HERE AGAIN TODAY.

THE ITEM BEFORE YOU IS BRINGING BACK THE SPECIAL EVENTS POLICY, AND THE POLICY WAS ORIGINALLY ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL TWO YEARS AGO, AND WE HAVE MADE A FEW IMPROVEMENTS TO THE POLICY AND PUT A LOT MORE INFORMATION IN THERE THAT HELPS DEFINE ITEMS. ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS ABOUT SPECIAL EVENTS IS TWO YEARS AGO WE ESTABLISHED A SPECIAL EVENTS OFFICE.

SO IT WAS A ONE STOP SHOP INSTEAD OF ORGANIZERS HAVING TO GO TO MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS, SEEING MULTIPLE PEOPLE IN MULTIPLE BUILDINGS, WE MADE IT A ONE STOP SHOP, WHICH IS ACTUALLY OFFICES IN MY SUITE WITH MY STAFF.

AND SO THE REALLY KEY THINGS WE DID NOT CHANGE VERY MUCH FROM 2022.

THE KEY THINGS ARE WE DID ESTABLISH A SEPARATE CATEGORY FOR FIREWORKS AND DRONES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE'RE SEEING MORE OF A REQUEST FOR DRONE OPPORTUNITIES IN THE CITY OF ABILENE, AND THERE'S VERY STRICT REGULATIONS ON DRONES.

SO WE'RE HAVING A SEPARATE CATEGORY FOR FIRE AND DRONES.

AND WE ALSO HAVE REQUESTED TO HAVE THE ABILITY WHEN THERE IS A LARGE SPECIAL EVENT, EVEN IF IT IS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT IT EXPANDS BEYOND THAT PRIVATE PROPERTY ONTO PUBLIC PROPERTY, AND THAT IMPACTS THE STREETS AND PUBLIC SAFETY THAT WE AT LEAST BE AWARE ABOUT.

AWARE OF THAT. SO FROM A PUBLIC SAFETY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE AWARE THAT THINGS ARE GOING ON SO WE CAN MANAGE THOSE.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT PARADES AND THE STAGING OF PARADES.

[01:20:04]

SO WE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME MULTIPLE MEETINGS LOOKING AT VARIOUS OPTIONS FOR STAGING PARADES.

AND SO WE CAME UP WITH THE BEST ALTERNATIVE FOR STAGING PARADES, STAYING OUT OF THE SODA DISTRICT, WHERE A LOT OF BUSINESSES, AS BUSINESSES HAPPENING DOWN, BUT STILL KEEPING THEM THE SAME PARADE ROUTE.

WHILE IT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION ON CYPRESS STREET.

YOU KNOW, WE DO PLAN ON MOVING BACK TO CYPRESS STREET WHEN THAT CONSTRUCTION IS COMPLETE.

SO REALLY, THE THREE MAIN CHANGES ARE LARGE EVENTS THAT EXPAND BEYOND PRIVATE PROPERTY, THE CREATION OF A SEPARATE, SEPARATE ITEM FOR FIREWORKS AND DRONES, AND THEN AS WELL AS ESTABLISHING THE PERMANENT STAGING AREA AND PARADE ROUTES FOR THE FUTURE.

AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. LESLIE, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS BACK.

AND I KNOW THAT WE HAD SOME MEETINGS WITH OUR CITIZENS, STAKEHOLDERS THAT A LOT OF THE ONES THAT DO THE PARADES IN DOWNTOWN, THE EFFORTS THAT THEY DO, AND WE APPRECIATE THEM DOING THIS.

AND WE AS A CITY AND STAFF, WE ALWAYS WANT TO GET BETTER.

BUT I APPRECIATE THE TIME THAT WE TOOK TO LISTEN TO THEIR CONCERNS.

AND YOU'VE BROUGHT US BACK A GOOD PROJECT HERE.

SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND ONE THING I WILL SAY THAT CAME OUT OF THAT MEETING, ONE OF THE ORGANIZATION ORGANIZERS WAS TALKING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF EMAILS THAT THE SOFTWARE CREATES. AND WE DID GO BACK TO THE SOFTWARE COMPANY, AND THEY HAVE WORKED WITH US, AND WE THINK WE HAVE FOUND A REMEDY FOR THAT.

WE'RE IN THE TESTING PHASE RIGHT NOW. BUT FROM ALL SIGNS, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF EMAILS THAT THEY WERE RECEIVING SO THAT THEY KNOW THAT WHEN THEY'RE GETTING AN EMAIL, IT IS A QUESTION OR SOMETHING OF IMPORTANCE FOR THEM, AND NOT JUST A WHOLE BUNCH OF NOTIFICATIONS. SO THAT IS AN IMPROVEMENT THAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WORK WITH OUR SOFTWARE COMPANY TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT.

SO IT WAS PRODUCTIVE. THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OF LESLIE? I HAVE ONE. I HAD ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD ASKED.

AND THEN I DIDN'T FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ON IT, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE FOCUSING PEOPLE TO, TO COME TO THIS ONE ONE STOP SHOP.

AND THE ONE DOCUMENT THAT DESCRIBES THE WHOLE PROCESS.

AND I HAD ASKED, CAN WE HAVE ON THAT FIRST PAGE WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT THIS IS KIND OF THE PROCESS THAT WE GO THROUGH CONTACT INFORMATION FOR LIKE THE ZOO AND ASM GLOBAL, BECAUSE Y'ALL DON'T DO THE RESERVATIONS FOR THE CONVENTION CENTER OR FOR THE ZOO.

AND SO I WAS WONDERING, I DIDN'T FOLLOW UP, BUT CAN WE JUST HAVE THAT? IF YOU'RE WANTING TO DO THE ZOO, HERE'S THE PHONE NUMBER.

IF YOU WANT TO DO THE CONVENTION CENTER, HERE'S THE PHONE NUMBER.

AND JUST SO THAT SOMEONE LOOKING AT THIS GOING, OKAY, THEY HANDLE EVERYTHING SEES OH, THEY HANDLE EVERYTHING EXCEPT THOSE TWO.

AND THAT'S WHO I NEED TO CALL. WE CAN DO THAT.

WE CAN ADD THIS TO TO THAT LOCATION. WE ALSO ALREADY HAVE THAT INFORMATION ON THE WEBSITE.

SO BY THE TIME THEY CLICK ON THIS POLICY THEY SHOULD HAVE ALREADY SEEN THAT INFORMATION.

BUT JUST AS A DOUBLE CHECK WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD THAT.

THANK YOU. AND LESLIE, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THIS IS A THE RESULT OF A LOT OF BEHIND THE SCENES WORK TALKING TO STAKEHOLDERS, TAKING FEEDBACK WORKING THROUGH OPTIONS. AND I THINK YOU'VE COME UP WITH A REALLY GOOD, ELEGANT SOLUTION.

IT ADDRESSES A LOT OF THE CONCERNS, THE FRUSTRATIONS, ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE THAT WERE TRYING TO ORGANIZE PARADES.

HOW MANY STEPS AND HOW MANY DIFFERENT PLACES THEY HAD TO GO.

AND PEOPLE. AND I THINK THIS HOPEFULLY WILL STREAMLINE IT.

I ALSO APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT IT CALLS OUT WHAT'S NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE A PERMIT, THE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS AND, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE YOU'VE GOT PRIVATE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.

IT SAYS IN THERE YOU DON'T NEED A PERMIT FOR THAT.

I THINK THAT'S HELPFUL BECAUSE IT REDUCES THE LEVEL OF CONFUSION.

YOU CAN POINT TO SOMETHING THAT SAYS, NO, NO, YOU'RE GOOD.

GO AHEAD AND HAVE YOUR HOT DOGS AND 4TH OF JULY ON YOUR BLOCK.

THAT'S GREAT. THANK YOU. THANKS. I CHECKED IN WITH SEVERAL ORGANIZERS OF THESE PARADES BEFORE TODAY, AND ALL OF THEM SAID THEY APPRECIATED THE PROCESS THAT GOT US HERE AND THAT THEY WERE THEY WERE GOOD WITH WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED.

AND JUST IT WAS A GOOD REFLECTION ON YOU AND YOUR STAFF OF OF WHERE WE STARTED AND WHERE WE ARE NOW AND HOW YOU GUYS MODIFIED AND ADDRESSED THE CONCERNS AND TOOK THE FEEDBACK AND ARRIVED AT WHERE WE AT WHERE WE'RE AT NOW.

SO THANK YOU. THIS WAS GREAT. THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU LESLIE. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST ITEM 26, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

AND WE HAVE A CARD. NO CARDS, NO CARD. SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.

IF NOT, I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND. MOVE FOR APPROVAL.

[01:25:02]

I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN PRICE. SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER.

WE'RE READY TO VOTE. ALL YESES, MOTION CARRIES AND CARRIES.

WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 27, AND I'LL ONCE AGAIN ASK LESLIE LESLIE ANDREWS TO PRESENT THIS ITEM.

[27. Ordinance (Final Reading): Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Amending Chapter 29, "Streets and Sidewalks," Article IX, "Special Events Permit" of the Code of Ordinances (Lesli Andrews)]

GOOD MORNING AGAIN. YES. THIS IS THE ORDINANCE THAT GOES ALONG THAT GOVERNS THE POLICY THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED IN THE ORDINANCE.

AGAIN, IT DEFINES MANY OF THE DEFINITIONS THAT WE ADDED INTO THE POLICY.

WE ALSO HAVE TO ADD THEM INTO THE ORDINANCE. AND IT'S THE ONE THAT GIVES US WHAT IS CONSIDERED PART OF THE POLICY AND THEN WHAT IS NOT CONSIDERED. AND SO AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO DEFINING WHAT SOME OF THOSE ITEMS ARE.

AND AGAIN, TO TO YOUR POINT THAT YOU MADE EARLIER, THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, FUNERAL PROCESSIONS OR STUDENT GROUPS OR 4TH OF JULY PARADES, NEIGHBORHOOD PARADES AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

THIS ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, DOES CODIFY THAT THERE IS A SPECIAL EVENTS OFFICE AND AGAIN, THE EXACT ROUTE AND PROCEDURES FOR PARADES.

AND BECAUSE OF THE MAGNITUDE THAT THEY DO HAVE ON OUR STREETS AND IN OUR PUBLIC, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

QUESTIONS OF LESLIE. JUST ONE. AS A FOLLOW UP TO THIS, IT MENTIONS THAT THE PARADE ROUTE WILL CHANGE IN 2026.

WILL WE HAVE TO COME BACK AND VOTE ON THIS AGAIN TO OFFICIALLY ADOPT THE CHANGE IN ROUTE, OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WILL AUTOMATICALLY TAKE PLACE? IT WILL AUTOMATICALLY TAKE PLACE. I DID ACTUALLY PUT THE MAP, THE THE MAP THAT WE'RE GOING TO IN 26 IN THIS.

SO IT'S ALREADY ADOPTED. AND IF YOU PASS IT TODAY NOW IF WE CHANGE FROM THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO BRING IT BACK BEFORE YOU.

WELL IT SAYS THAT'S THE MAP PENDING APPROVAL FROM THE CONVENTION CENTER HOTEL.

THE ROUTE MAP IS A SET PARADE ROUTE, PENDING APPROVAL FROM THE DOUBLETREE BY HILTON FOR THE 2026 PARADE ROUTE.

SO THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE ACTION AGAIN, SINCE IT'S STILL PENDING AND WE KNOW THE WE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT NOW, SO IT IS NO LONGER PENDING. WE CAN TAKE WE CAN TAKE PENDING OFF.

THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? NO, SIR. THANK YOU.

LESLIE. AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST? ITEM 27. PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. IF NOT, I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND.

SO MOVED. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER.

SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN REAGAN. WE'RE READY TO VOTE.

ALL. YES. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 28.

[28. Ordinance (Final Reading): Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Amending the Fees and Charges Ordinance to Special Events Fees (Lesli Andrews]

AND LESLIE ANDREWS, YOU'RE UP AGAIN ONE LAST TIME.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR HAVING ME UP HERE. WHAT GOES ALSO ALONG WITH THE POLICY AND THE ORDINANCE IS THE ADOPTION OF FEES.

SO WHAT WE ARE REQUESTING IS THE ADDITION OF A FEE FOR FIREWORKS, PYROTECHNICS AND SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT, WHICH IS YOUR DRONES. SO IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO HAVE A DRONE SHOW, IT WOULD BE A $300 PERMIT FEE.

AND THEN PUBLIC WORKS HAS REQUESTED AN INCREASE ON THE STREET SWEEPER FEE FROM 120 TO $225.

AND THE STREET SWEEPER FOLLOWS OUR PARADES. AND SO SINCE THOSE ARE TYPICALLY IN THE EVENING AND ON WEEKENDS, THEY HAVE ASKED FOR A SMALL INCREASE IN THAT FEE.

SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. QUESTIONS OF LESLIE.

THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST ITEM 28? PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.

IF NOT, I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION IN A SECOND. SO MOVED.

I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN YATES. SECOND. SECOND BY.

COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER. WE'RE HAVING A RACE. READY TO VOTE.

ALL YESES. MOTION CARRIES. CARRIES. WE NOW MOVE TO ITEM 29, AND I WILL ASK STANLEY SMITH,

[29. Ordinance (Final Reading): Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Amending Chapter 6, Animals and Fowl, of the Abilene Code of Ordinances (Stanley Smith)]

CITY ATTORNEY, TO PRESENT THIS ITEM. THANK YOU.

MAYOR. GOOD MORNING, STANLEY SMITH, CITY ATTORNEY. THIS ITEM BEFORE COUNCIL THIS MORNING IS A FINAL READING OF SOME AMENDMENTS TO THE ANIMAL AND FOWL ORDINANCE. SOME OF THESE ARE ROUTINE CHANGES.

SOME OF THESE ARE CHANGES BASED UPON FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY.

SOME OF THESE ARE BASED UPON FEEDBACK FROM THE ADVISORY BOARD.

[01:30:03]

SO IT'S KIND OF A COMPREHENSIVE CHANGE TO THE ORDINANCE.

WE PUT A LOT IN HERE. SOME OF THESE THINGS WE'VE BEEN WAITING ON.

SO I WANTED TO KIND OF GO THROUGH THESE FAIRLY QUICKLY.

SOME OF THE MAJOR CHANGES FOR YOU TODAY. SUMMARY OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES.

THE NAME OF ANIMAL CONTROL DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN CHANGED TO ANIMAL ABILENE ANIMAL OUTREACH.

THAT'S THE CHANGE THAT'S ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. SO WE'RE JUST MAKING THAT CHANGE IN THE ORDINANCE FOR UNIFORMITY.

THERE WAS A CHANGE IN STATE LAW REGARDING A MUNICIPALITY'S ABILITY TO REGULATE AGRICULTURAL OPERATIONS WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.

SO WITH THAT NEW STATE LAW, WE'VE MADE ONE CHANGE TO OUR ORDINANCE TO TO COMPLY WITH THAT.

THERE'S ALSO SOME STATE LAW THAT'S BEEN IN EFFECT REGARDING RESTRAINING DOGS, PROHIBITING CHAINS AND WEIGHTS.

SO EVEN THOUGH THAT WAS A STATE LAW, WE WANTED TO BRING THAT INTO OUR ORDINANCE AS WELL.

SO THAT CHANGES COMING FORWARD. A NEW CHANGE OR A NEW ADDITION TO OUR ANIMAL ORDINANCE IS PROHIBITING THE SALE OF DOMESTIC ANIMALS IN PUBLIC PLACES AND REQUIRING PERMISSION OF PRIVATE LANDOWNERS TO TO SELL DOMESTIC ANIMALS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.

A FIFTH CHANGE, AN ADDITION, IS THE COMMERCIAL BREEDERS PERMIT TO ALLOW PERSONS TO BREED DOGS AND CATS ABOVE THE LIMIT.

THAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE THAT WILL GO THROUGH HERE IN A SECOND.

NUMBER SIX IS CREATING AN AGGRESSIVE DOG CATEGORY.

NOW THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MY OFFICE IS BRINGING FORWARD. STATE LAW DEFINES DANGEROUS DOGS.

AND WE'VE ALWAYS ADOPTED THAT DANGEROUS DOG RESTRICTION.

DANGEROUS DOG IS DEFINED UNDER STATE LAW AS AN ATTACK OR A PRESUMED ATTACK AGAINST A PERSON.

IT DOES NOT INCLUDE ATTACKS AGAINST DOMESTIC ANIMALS.

NOW, WE HAD ADDED THAT IN OUR ORDINANCE, THERE'S BEEN CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN THE CITY ATTORNEYS THE LAST MANY YEARS, WHETHER THAT IS PREEMPTED UNDER STATE LAW, WHETHER OR NOT A CITY HAS TO ADD ITS OWN AGGRESSIVE DOGS ORDINANCE TO HAVE DOGS ON DOMESTIC ANIMAL ATTACKS.

SO SINCE WE'RE DOING THIS COMPREHENSIVE CHANGE, WE SAID THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO DO THAT. SO WE'VE CREATED THIS AGGRESSIVE DOG CATEGORY, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY VERY MUCH OF A MIRROR OF THE DANGEROUS DOG CATEGORY, BUT IT'S SPECIFICALLY FOR AGGRESSIVE DOG ATTACKS ON DOMESTIC ANIMALS, WHETHER IT'S ANOTHER DOG, WHETHER IT'S A CAT, WHATEVER IT MAY BE ON A DOMESTIC ANIMAL.

AND IN THE PROCESS IS VERY SIMILAR BECAUSE WE WANTED THE PROCESS TO BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE DANGEROUS DOG.

SO THE, THE PUBLIC KNEW WHAT THE PROCESS WAS.

ANIMAL CONTROL KNEW WHAT THE PROCESS WAS. BUT THAT'S WHAT THE NEED FOR THAT IS JUST JUST SO WE'RE IN LINE WITH STATE LAW AND THERE'S NO PREEMPTION ISSUES.

AND WE'VE ALSO AND I'LL GO THROUGH THIS IN A SECOND, BUT WE'VE ALSO CHANGED IT FROM SERIOUS BODILY INJURY TO DOMESTIC ANIMAL TO BODILY INJURY TO A DOMESTIC ANIMAL. SO WE'RE NOT HAVING TO PROVE WHAT SERIOUS BODILY INJURY MAY BE.

THERE WAS AN ISSUE THAT CAME UP A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO REGARDING THIS.

SO WE'VE ALSO ADDED A REQUIREMENT THAT IF SOMEONE'S DOG IS, IS PICKED UP BY ANIMAL CONTROL IN ORDER TO RECLAIM THAT DOG OR OR OR CAT.

YOU HAVE TO BRING IN PROOF THAT YOU'VE STERILIZED THAT DOG OR CAT WITHIN 30 DAYS OF RECLAIMING YOUR DOG.

IF YOU DO NOT, THEN THAT FAILURE TO BRING IN THAT VERIFICATION CAN BE A CLASS C MISDEMEANOR.

SECOND TIME THE DOG IS PICKED UP, THEN THE CITY OF ABILENE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO STERILIZE THAT DOG OR STERILIZE IT AND CHARGE THAT TO THE TO THE ANIMAL OWNER BEFORE THEY THEY RECLAIM THE RECLAIM THAT DOG OR CAT. AND FINALLY, THERE'S SOME STRENGTHENINGS TO THE QUARANTINE OF AN ANIMAL.

SOME THINGS THAT WE CHANGED FROM THE FIRST READING TO THIS READING.

THERE IS NO LONGER A DRAFT REQUIREMENT THAT ALL DOGS OR CATS BE SPAYED OR NEUTERED.

THAT'S BEEN COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM THE LANGUAGE OF THE ORDINANCE.

SO THAT'S NO LONGER IN THERE. AND THEN IN TANDEM WITH THAT, THE DRAFT FOR A SHOW ANIMAL PERMIT THAT'S BEEN REMOVED AS WELL.

SO THOSE THINGS ARE DIFFERENT THAN, THAN WE HAD IN FIRST READING.

SO I WANTED TO KIND OF GO THROUGH SOME OF THESE SECTIONS THAT'S IN THE CODE FOR THE PUBLIC.

I DON'T WANT TO READ THROUGH THESE. I MEAN, THEY'RE ALL IN THE PACKET, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO THE COUNCIL. THESE ARE SOME OF THE MAJOR THINGS.

SECTION 16 THE KEEPING OF SWINE. THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE THE AGRICULTURAL CHANGE FROM THE STATE.

SO WE IF IT'S IF IT'S OTHERWISE ALLOWED BY LAW, WE DON'T RESTRICT THE KEEPING OF SWINE.

CARE AND HUMANE TREATMENT OF ANIMALS WHEN THEY'RE RESTRAINED.

WE'VE ADDED SOME SOME SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S AN UNHEALTHY SITUATION OR POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS FOR THE PUBLIC TO SECURE A DOG IF THEY'RE NOT, IF THEY DON'T HAVE POTABLE WATER OR IF THEY'RE IF THEY'RE LEFT IN AN AREA THAT THEY'RE STANDING IN WATER OR THEY'RE EXPOSED TO EXCESSIVE ANIMAL WASTE, OR THEY CAN'T GET TO SHADE OR THEY DON'T HAVE OTHERWISE ADEQUATE SHELTER.

WE HAVE ADDED THOSE IN THERE TO MAKE IT MORE SPECIFIC AS TO WHAT A RESTRAINING A DOG IN AN UNHEALTHY SITUATION MAY BE.

WE'VE ALSO ADDED A SECTION SEVEN RESTRAINING A DOG OUTSIDE AND UNATTENDED BY THE USE OF A RESTRAINT THAT IS A CHAIN OR HAS WEIGHTS ATTACHED IS ALSO PROHIBITED.

[01:35:01]

THIS IS FALLING IN LINE WITH WHAT THE STATE LAW IS.

SO WE PUT THAT IN OUR ORDINANCE. SO NO CHAINS, NO WEIGHTS FOR RESTRAINING A DOG WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.

SECTION C WE ADDED A RESTRAINT. THERE'S LENGTH REQUIREMENTS UNDER STATE LAW.

WE WANTED TO ADD A DEFINITION BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE PUT A DOG ON A TROLLEY.

SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WAS COVERED. SO THE TROLLEY SYSTEM WHERE A DOG CAN GO BACK AND FORTH, THAT'S THAT'S LISTED NOW AS WELL. THERE'S A LENGTH REQUIREMENT ON THAT.

THE RESTRAINT, WE PUT TWO EXCEPTIONS TO THE RESTRAINT OF A DOG IN OUR ORDINANCE, A DOG THAT'S RESTRAINED IN AN OPEN AIR TRUCK BED FOR A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME BY THE OWNER TO RUN AN ERRAND OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE A VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

AND A DOG THAT'S RESTRAINED WHILE THE OWNER IS ENGAGED IN OR ACTIVELY TRAINING FOR HUNTING OR FIELD DRILLING.

THAT'S ALSO NOT GOING TO BE A VIOLATION OF OUR ORDINANCE UNDER THIS NEW SECTION OF DOMESTIC ANIMALS AND PUBLIC PLACES IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT SAYS.

IT'S UNLAWFUL FOR SOMEONE TO SELL, LEASE, RENT, GIVE AWAY FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES ANY DOMESTIC ANIMAL IN A PUBLIC PLACE.

YOU CAN. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO A SALE HELD ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.

IF YOU HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO DO SO.

THAT'S ALSO FOR PRIVATE PARKING LOTS. THAT DOES NOT APPLY.

THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO THE CITY OF ABILENE OR A NON NOT FOR PROFIT ANIMAL WELFARE OR RESCUE AGENCY.

SO THEY'RE ABLE TO SELL ON THE PUBLIC PROPERTY.

ANOTHER ISSUE AGAIN THAT THAT CAME UP THAT'S A NEW ADDITION TO OUR ORDINANCE IS THE COMMERCIAL BREEDING PERMIT.

AND SO THE FIRST PART OF THIS COMMERCIAL BREEDING PERMIT REQUIRED TALKS ABOUT BREEDING THAT'S ALLOWED WITHOUT A PERMIT.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE WE START, AND ESSENTIALLY SO IF A PERSON BREEDS CATS OR DOGS TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY HAVE MORE THAN 12 CATS OR DOGS, OR MORE THAN TWO LITTERS OF CATS OR DOGS IN A 12 MONTH PERIOD, THEY HAVE TO OBTAIN A PERMIT.

SO IF YOU HAVE LESS, LESS THAN THAT, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO REGULATE.

THOSE SITUATIONS DO NOT NEED A PERMIT. IF YOU HAVE A LITTER OF DOGS ONCE A YEAR OR A LITTER OF CATS, THAT SORT OF THING, THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE COVERED UNDER OUR ORDINANCE. IT'S NOT RESTRICTED.

BUT IF IT'S MORE THAN THAT, YOU HAVE TO GET A COMMERCIAL BREEDING PERMIT.

JUST SOME. I DON'T WANT TO READ THROUGH ALL THIS, BUT THERE'S SOME RESTRICTIONS. ON WHAT? WHEN THE ANIMAL CONTROL CANNOT ISSUE A PERMIT IF IT VIOLATES ZONING, THAT'S VERY LIMITED. IF THE APPLICANTS HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF CRIMINAL OFFENSES FOR ANIMALS THAT'S GOING TO RESTRICT A PERSONS FROM OBTAINING A PERMIT.

THE PERMIT IS NOT TRANSFERABLE TO ANOTHER PERSON.

SO EACH PERSON HAS TO GET THEIR OWN PERMIT. IT'S.

THE PERMIT IS INTENDED TO BE FOR TWO YEARS. SO SOMEONE'S NOT HAVING TO COME IN REGULARLY TO GET THAT DONE.

EVERY CAT OR DOG, FEMALE, CAT OR DOG THAT'S INTENDED TO BE BRED, YOU NEED TO REGISTER THAT ANIMAL.

AND THERE'S SOME REQUIREMENTS ON THAT. THERE'S NO FEE TO REGISTER. BUT THAT'S WE'RE WANTING TO KNOW WHO'S WHO'S WHO'S BREEDING AND WHAT ANIMALS THEY'RE BREEDING THAT'S IN THERE. REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE FOR AN ANIMAL IS AVAILABLE FOR TWO YEARS.

WE DID ADD AN EXEMPTION FROM FIRST READING TO SECOND READING FROM CHAPTER 800 205 OF THE STATE TEXAS OCCUPATIONS CODE DEALING WITH SPECIAL DOG BREEDS. DOG BREEDS THAT ARE USED FOR HERDING LIVESTOCK OR OTHER AGRICULTURAL AGRICULTURAL USES, OR FOR HUNTING, OR FOR COMPETING IN FIELD TRIALS, HUNTING TESTS, BREED OR CONFORMATION SHOWS, WHICH ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SHOW DOGS. THOSE ARE EXEMPT FROM OBTAINING A PERMIT.

SO THOSE THOSE SPECIFIC DOGS ARE EXEMPT UNDER STATE LAW.

SO WE'VE EXEMPTED THOSE UNDER OUR ORDINANCE AS WELL.

AND AGAIN THE AGGRESSIVE DOG THAT'S KIND OF SELF-EXPLANATORY.

BUT AGAIN IT'S A IT'S AN UNPROVOKED, UNPROVOKED ATTACK ON A DOMESTIC ANIMAL THAT CAUSES BODILY INJURY.

SO THAT'S ONE CHANGE THAT WE'VE MADE FROM OUR PREVIOUS ORDINANCE.

THERE'S A PROCEDURE WHERE IF SOMEONE MAKES A SWORN COMPLAINT, ANIMAL CONTROL SEES THAT, SEES THE DOG, THEY HAVE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT THE DOG IS AGGRESSIVE WITHIN TEN DAYS. IF THEY DO NOT, THEY RETURN THE DOG TO THE OWNER.

IF THEY MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT THE DOG IS AGGRESSIVE, THEN THERE'S REQUIREMENTS FOR THE OWNER TO COMPLY WITH UNDER THE CODE THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR TO A DANGEROUS DOG. IF THEY DON'T MAKE THOSE REQUIREMENTS OR OR SIGN A VERIFICATION THAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO SO, THEN THAT ANIMAL BECOMES THE CITY'S ANIMAL TO DISPOSE OF IN WHATEVER WAY THE CITY IS ABLE TO DO SO, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH ADOPTION OR WHATEVER. IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH THE CITY, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL.

THEY CAN APPEAL THAT TO THE MUNICIPAL COURT AND HAVE A FULL BLOWN HEARING IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE, WHERE THE JUDGE CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION VERY SIMILAR TO A DANGEROUS DOG APPEAL.

ANOTHER CHANGE THAT WE'VE MADE TO THE ANIMAL ORDINANCE IS UNSTERILIZED ANIMALS.

[01:40:05]

AGAIN, THAT I TALKED ABOUT JUST A SECOND AGO.

IN THE SUMMARY, IF ANIMAL CONTROL PICKS UP A DOG OR CAT OVER THE AGE OF SIX MONTHS AND THEY'VE NOT BEEN STERILIZED, SPAYED OR NEUTERED IN ORDER TO PICK UP THAT THAT ANIMAL OR RECLAIM THAT ANIMAL, YOU HAVE TO COME BACK IN WITHIN 30 DAYS TO SHOW PROOF THAT YOU STERILIZED THAT ANIMAL.

IF YOU DO NOT, IT'S A CLASS C MISDEMEANOR. THERE'S SOME AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES UNDER THERE.

IF YOU HOLD A BREEDERS LICENSE, THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU.

IF IF THE DOG IS AGAIN USED AS ONE OF THESE SHOW DOGS OR ONE OF THESE HUNTING DOGS, THAT DOESN'T APPLY.

IF IT'S A GOVERNMENT DOG, A POLICE DOG, IT DOESN'T APPLY.

IF THE DOG IS BROUGHT IN A SECOND TIME, THEN AND IT'S STILL NOT STERILIZED.

THE CITY HAS THE OPTION TO STERILIZE THAT ANIMAL AND CHARGE THE OWNER.

THE OWNER. IF THE OWNER SHOWS BY A VETERINARIAN THAT THAT THE THE ANIMAL SHOULD NOT BE STERILIZED.

IF THEY CAN SHOW. MY VET HAS SAID MY ANIMAL SHOULD NOT BE STERILIZED.

THAT'S A THAT'S A DEFENSE TO THAT THAT SPAYING AND NEUTERING BY THE CITY.

AND THEN FINALLY CONFINEMENT OF ANIMALS DURING QUARANTINE.

WE'VE INCLUDED THE DEFINITION OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE DOG PARKS IN THERE, JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IF A DOG IS QUARANTINED OR THERE'S A CITYWIDE QUARANTINE, THESE ANIMALS CANNOT BE IN THE DOG PARKS. SO THAT'S KIND OF A SUMMARY OF THE MAJOR CHANGES TO THE ANIMAL ORDINANCE.

I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE ON ON 619 WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SELLING.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT SELLING, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL GONE TO WALMART AND PLACES, AND THEN SOMEONE'S GOT A CAR OVER HERE AND SAYS, HEY, YOU KNOW, PUPPIES FOR SALE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. PROVIDING THEY HAVE THE APPROVAL OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, THEY CAN DO THAT. IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE APPROVAL OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, THAT IS NO LONGER LEGAL.

IS THAT IS THAT CORRECT? THAT WOULD BE CORRECT. AND IT'S WRITTEN PERMISSION IS WRITTEN PERMISSION.

WHAT WE HAVE IN THERE TO AVOID ANY CONFUSION ABOUT SOMETHING. WELL, I'VE GOT PERMISSION. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME WRITTEN PERMISSION. SO IF AN ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER OR A POLICE OFFICER SHOWS UP, HERE'S MY WRITTEN PERMISSION.

AND IT'S DEALT WITH RIGHT THERE. AND HOW DOES THAT JIVE WITH SOME OF THE OTHER COMMUNITIES AROUND TEXAS? DO THEY HAVE SIMILAR, SIMILAR LAWS LIKE THAT? THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE VERY SIMILAR ORDINANCES LIKE THAT.

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY READ EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, BUT WE LOOKED AT AT MANY SISTER CITIES AND OTHER CITIES AROUND THE STATE OF TEXAS TO TRY TO GET SOME LANGUAGE WHEN THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE COUNCIL WANTED US TO DO.

AND, YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE GET INTO THE DISCUSSION, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THIS THIS COUNCIL IS, IS REALLY TRYING TO PROTECT OUR ANIMALS IN THE CITY OF ABILENE.

THAT'S THAT'S THE GOAL OF THIS. WE DON'T WANT TO HARASS, YOU KNOW, PET OWNERS, PEOPLE THAT TAKE CARE OF THEIR PETS.

WE WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THESE ANIMALS, BUT WE DO WANT TO DEAL IN A IN A BETTER WAY WITH AGGRESSIVE DOGS.

AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT. SO IT'S REALLY FOR THE PROTECTION OF OUR ANIMALS IS WHY WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS.

BUT I DO LOOK FORWARD TO THE DISCUSSION. ANY OTHER FURTHER QUESTIONS? JUST A POINT FOR WHEN WE MAKE THE MOTION IN SIX DASH 18, THERE'S A COUPLE OF REFERENCES TO A SECTION THAT IS MOVED UP BECAUSE OF THE REMOVAL OF THE SPAY NEUTER REQUIREMENT, SO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT CORRECTION.

I CAUGHT IT THIS MORNING. YES, I WAS REREADING.

THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE WILL MAKE THAT THAT CHANGE. YES.

ANYONE ELSE? JUST FOR CLARITY'S SAKE, STANLEY, I KNOW THE SPAY NEUTER THING HAS CAUSED A LITTLE CONTROVERSY.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE REMOVED THE MANDATORY. BUT LET'S TALK FOR JUST A MINUTE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE TWO SITUATIONS WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RECLAMATIONS ONLY SO YOUR DOG GETS OUT, GETS PICKED UP BY ANIMAL CONTROL.

THE ORDINANCE WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO PROVIDE PROOF OF STERILIZATION TO THAT ANIMAL.

BUT THERE IS AN EXCEPTION TO THAT. YES. IF YOUR VET SAYS NO, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, NOT THIS.

THIS WILL POSE AN UNREASONABLE RISK OR HARM TO THAT ANIMAL, WHICH WILL REQUIRE THE PERSON WHOSE DOG GOT OUT TO GO TO THE VET AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A MEDICAL EXCEPTION HERE? AND IF IN THE VET'S OPINION THERE IS, THEN YOU CAN GET THAT IN WRITING AND TAKE IT TO THE CITY AND YOU'LL BE EXEMPT FROM THAT SAME SAME EXCEPTION APPLIES IF THE DOG'S PICKED UP A SECOND TIME. IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

THAT'S CORRECT. I MEAN, IT WOULD BE WE HAVE IT AS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE, WHICH WOULD I MEAN, REALLY READS AS IF YOU'RE HAVING A HEARING. YOU PRESENT THAT TO THE JUDGE OR JURY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS IF SOMEONE BROUGHT THAT TO US, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD NOT PROSECUTE SOMEBODY WHO'S OBVIOUSLY GOT A DEFENSE.

I KNOW THERE'S SOME CONTROVERSY HERE AND SOME STRONG OPINIONS, BUT JUST LAST WEEK, OUR BRAND NEW ANIMAL SHELTER HAD TO STOP TAKING STRAYS BECAUSE THEY WERE FULL AGAIN. AND SO WE MOVED FROM A SMALL FACILITY TO A NEW FACILITY THAT WAS MUCH LARGER.

AND IT IS ALREADY FULL. AND A LARGE CONTRIBUTOR TO THAT IS IRRESPONSIBLE PET OWNERSHIP.

RIGHT. AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE A SYSTEM WHERE IT'S FAIR TO PEOPLE.

[01:45:02]

MY DOG'S GOTTEN OUT OF MY FENCE, WENT HOME WITH A JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL GIRL WALKING DOWN THE STREET FROM SCHOOL ONE DAY, FOUND HER THREE DAYS LATER DUE TO ALL THE FLIERS, RIGHT? SO SHOULD I BE REQUIRED TO SPAY OR NEUTER THAT ANIMAL IF THAT ANIMAL GETS OUT? I THINK THE ANSWER HAS TO BE YES IF WE'RE GOING TO START WORKING TO CONTROL THE ANIMAL POPULATION.

OUR SHELTER IS ALREADY FULL AGAIN. AND I MEAN, IT TOOK LESS THAN A YEAR, YOU KNOW, TO FILL THAT SHELTER UP.

SO I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

AS YOU THINK ABOUT THE SPAY NEUTER THING. THE MANDATORY ONE IS GONE.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CAME FROM. THAT WAS NOT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE ANIMAL SERVICES ADVISORY BOARD.

BUT THAT'S NOT IN THERE ANYMORE. SO WE'VE GOT SOME EXCEPTIONS BUILT IN. I THINK WE'VE COME UP WITH A PRETTY GOOD PRODUCT THAT'S REASONABLE.

AND I JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, SO THIS RIGHT HERE SAYS IT'S AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE FOR SUBSECTION B WHERE YOU JUST WERE RIGHT.

THE PREVIOUS ONE. THAT'S CORRECT. YES. OKAY. SO THAT'S THOSE THOSE ABC THAT ONLY APPLIES TO THE FIRST TIME THEY'RE PICKED UP.

NOT THE SECOND TIME THEY'RE PICKED UP IS HOW I'M READING THAT.

IS THAT CORRECT? AND THAT MAY BE THAT MAY BE TRUE.

I MEAN, I DON'T I DIDN'T PUT ALL THE SECTIONS IN HERE.

SO LET ME SEE. BUT C IS THE SECOND TIME IT'S PICKED UP, BUT THE SECOND TIME IT'S PICKED UP THE EXCEPTIONS THERE IS THE VET RECOMMENDATION. OR THEY'RE ALREADY NON-FERTILE.

AND THOSE ARE THE FOR CLARIFICATIONS. IF IF THIS MOVES TO A MOTION TO APPROVE, YOU COULD ALSO MAKE A MOTION THAT THAT EXCEPTION APPLIES TO BOTH THE FIRST AND THE SECOND RECLAIMING OF THAT ANIMAL. SO SO THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, IT WOULDN'T INCLUDE LIKE POLICE RESCUE ANIMALS AND THE 80205A ANIMALS THAT ARE IN THE FIRST AND B THOSE ARE NOT INCLUDED IN C THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, RIGHT. THAT'S YES, THAT'S THE WAY IT'S ON THE SLIDE.

YES. SO ALL THOSE EXCEPTIONS YOU WANT TO APPLY TO BOTH SITUATIONS.

THAT'S CERTAINLY EASY TO DO AND PROBABLY WAS THE INTENT TO BEGIN WITH.

THAT WAS THE INTENT. YEAH. OKAY. THE EXEMPTION ON THE SPECIAL PURPOSE DOGS.

YES. WE'RE CLASSIFYING THAT AS, YOU KNOW, HERDING DOGS, HUNTING, TRACKING, CHASING FIELD TRIALS.

I THINK WE PROBABLY SHOULD PUT SERVICE DOGS IN THERE.

PEOPLE ARE PRODUCING SERVICE SERVICE DOGS. THAT EXCEPTION SPECIFICALLY REFERENCES A STATE SECTION.

SO THAT'S WHY I PUT THE STATE SECTION IN THERE.

IF YOU WANTED TO ALSO ADD AN EXEMPTION FOR SERVICE DOGS.

AGAIN, THIS IS FOR THE BREEDERS PERMIT SECTION.

IF YOU WANTED TO ADD A SECTION IN THERE EXEMPTING SERVICE DOGS OWNERS FROM GETTING A BREEDERS PERMIT, YOU COULD CERTAINLY DO THAT AS WELL. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE UNDER THIS SPECIFIC, BUT WE COULD PUT IT IN THAT THAT SECTION AS WELL.

SO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE BREEDERS PERMIT OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE BREEDERS? OKAY.

NOT ABOUT THE THE STERILIZATION IF THEY'RE. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, I SWITCHED TOPICS.

OKAY. SORRY. BECAUSE WE'RE EXEMPTING FROM THE BREEDERS PERMIT HUNTING DOGS, TRACKING DOGS.

YOU KNOW, BIRD DOGS. BUT WE DON'T HAVE SERVICE ANIMALS IN THERE.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE. SHOW DOGS? YES. SHOW DOGS.

YEAH. BUT IS THAT IS THAT EXEMPTION ALREADY COVERED IN STATE LAW? YES. WELL, STATE REGULATES CERTAIN BREEDING FACILITIES.

OUR ORDINANCE REGULATES SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE NARROW WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS, WHICH STATE LAW ALLOWS US TO DO.

SO WE'RE JUST INCORPORATING SOME OF THE STATE LAW LANGUAGE TO SINCE IT'S EXEMPT UNDER STATE LAW, WE'RE TRANSFERRING THAT OVER AND MAKING IT EXEMPT UNDER OUR ORDINANCE AS WELL. JUST SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION FROM THOSE THOSE DOG OWNERS THAT HAVE THOSE TYPES OF DOGS.

BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO HURT TO ADD THAT IN. IT WOULD NOT IF THAT'S WHAT THE COUNCIL WANTS TO DO.

ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU. STANLEY. THANKS, STANLEY.

AT THIS TIME, I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST? ITEM 29. PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

AND I THINK WE HAVE SOME CARDS. FIRST ONE IS CINDY KNOX.

HI, MY NAME IS CINDY KNOX AND THE FIRST THING I WANT TO DO IS THANK ALL OF YOU IN PARTICULARLY MR. HANNA, FOR HAVING CONVERSATION AND DIALOG WITH THE AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF OUR SHOW DOGS.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IS THIS SPAY AND NEUTER ON THE SECOND SECOND GO ROUND FOR A DOG THAT GETS OUT. THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT ON THAT.

[01:50:04]

AND ALSO I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT MY DOG. HER NAME IS TOOTSIE.

SHE IS A 3 POUND CHIHUAHUA. SHE COMES TO MY HOUSE.

I HAVE TWO ACRES. IT'S ALL FULLY FENCED. IT'S IN THE CITY.

AND SHE GETS OUT BECAUSE SHE LIKES TO GO VISIT.

GRANDMA'S UGLY CRYING. WE GET THE DOG BACK, WE FIND HER, WE GET HER BACK.

WE SOLVE THAT PROBLEM. WHERE? WHERE SHE GOT OUT.

AND SURE ENOUGH, SHE'S GONE AGAIN. NOW, I WON'T TELL YOU WHAT WE CALL HER WHEN SHE DOES THAT.

BUT YOU KNOW, SHE'S OUT AGAIN. SO CONCEIVABLY, WHILE SHE'S AT MY HOUSE AND I'M WATCHING HER WHILE HER MOM'S, YOU KNOW, GONE SOMEWHERE, HOPEFULLY HAVING FUN.

SHE'S GOTTEN OUT TWICE. I'VE SOLVED THE PROBLEM OF THE FENCE WHERE I KNOW SHE'S GETTING OUT.

NOW, THE SOLUTION IS THAT SHE HAS TO WEAR A BIG DAISY CONE BECAUSE SHE CAN'T GET THROUGH THE FENCE.

SHE'S SMALL, BUT WITHOUT THIS, THIS CONCEPT OF YOUR DOG'S GOTTEN OUT TWICE IS NOT THAT.

AND SO YOU'RE BEING FORCED TO SPAY AND NEUTER IS REALLY NOT REASONABLE.

I KNOW THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM. I KNOW THAT PROBLEM NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED.

I DON'T KNOW THAT DOING IT THIS WAY WITHOUT SAYING IF IF THIS HAPPENS WITHIN SIX MONTHS, OR IF IT HAPPENS WITHIN 12 MONTHS OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, WHATEVER TIME FRAME. BUT JUST IN IN MY CASE WITH TOOTSIE, SHE WOULD HAVE TO BE SPAYED OR NEUTERED.

THIS LITTLE 3 POUND CHIHUAHUA THAT JUST LIKES TO GO OUT AND VISIT PEOPLE.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT I DON'T THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING IS, IS GOING TO DO WHAT WE WANT.

AND WE ALL OF US WANT TO PROHIBIT DOGS FROM BEING BRED UNNECESSARILY.

BUT THIS ISN'T THE WAY AND IT'S EDUCATION AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S MAKING EFFORTS IN OTHER AREAS.

IT'S IT'S SPAY AND NEUTER AND DOING IT IN A REASONABLE WAY AND A REASONABLE COST THAT PEOPLE CAN AFFORD.

THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO ATTACK, RATHER THAN PUTTING SOME DRACONIAN LAW IN EFFECT THAT MIGHT HARM MISS TOOTSIE.

THANK YOU. AARON YOUNG.

AARON YOUNG, CLYDE, TEXAS. HONORABLE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BEGIN TO SPEAK TODAY.

WHILE I APPRECIATE THE CITY'S DECISION TO REMOVE THE BLANKET SPAY NEUTER REQUIREMENT, I WANT TO ADDRESS CONCERNS REGARDING THE NEW APPROACH, PARTICULARLY THE REQUIREMENT FOR STERILIZATION AFTER THE ANIMAL IS IMPOUNDED BY ANIMAL SERVICES, ENFORCEMENT BY ENFORCEMENT, AND VETERINARY CONFIDENTIALITY CONCERNS.

THE ORDINANCE STATES THAT OWNERS RECLAIMING AN UNSTERILIZED DOG CAT MUST PROVIDE WRITTEN PROOF OF STERILIZATION WITHIN 30 DAYS, OR FACE PENALTIES. HOWEVER, THE TEXAS OCCUPATION CODE 801.353 VETERINARY RECORDS ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND CANNOT BE DISCLOSED WITHOUT THE OWNER'S CONSENT OR COURT ORDER. THIS RAISED AN IMPORTANT QUESTION HOW DOES THE CITY PLAN TO VERIFY COMPLIANCE WITHOUT VIOLATING STATE LAW? ADDITIONALLY, IF COMPLIANCE IS BASED SOLELY ON OWNER REPORTING AND OPENS THE DOOR FOR SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT INCONSISTENCIES INCONSISTENCIES ON HOW THE RULE IS APPLIED.

AGE BASED STERILIZATION REQUIREMENTS IS NOT BREED SPECIFIC.

THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES STERILIZATION FOR IMPOUND ANIMALS OVER SIX MONTHS OF AGE, UNLESS EXEMPT BY A VETERINARIAN.

HOWEVER, SIX MONTHS IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE STANDARD FOR ALL BREEDS.

SOME SMALL BREEDS OFTEN CAN BE SAFELY STERILIZED AROUND SIX MONTHS.

LARGE AND GIANT BREEDS REQUIRE MORE TIME FOR PROPER BONE AND JOINT DEVELOPMENT, WITH MOST VETERINARY GUIDELINES RECOMMENDING STERILIZATION BETWEEN 18 AND 24 MONTHS.

A BLANKET SIX MONTH REQUIREMENT DOES NOT ALIGN WITH BEST VETERINARY PRACTICES AND MAY NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE HEALTH OF CERTAIN BREEDS.

EMBRACE MANDATORY STERILIZATION AFTER A SECOND IMPOUNDMENT.

THORN STATES THAT IF AN ANIMAL IS IMPOUNDED TWICE, THE OWNER MUST PAY FOR STERILIZATION BEFORE RECLAIMING THE PET, UNLESS VETERINARY PROVIDES A MEDICAL EXEMPTION.

WHILE THE PROVISION AIMS TO REDUCE REPEAT STRAYS, IT FAILS TO ACCOUNT FOR CERTAIN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND THE ANIMAL'S CONTROL, LIKE MR. BEARD STATED. A PET ESCAPING DUE TO AN ACCIDENT OR EMERGENCY SITUATION.

A STOLEN PET THAT IS LATER FOUND AND IMPOUNDED.

MICROCHIPPED ANIMAL THAT WAS MISTAKENLY CLASSIFIED AS A STRAY.

THIS ONE SIZE FITS ALL APPROACH DOES NOT CONSIDER THE INDIVIDUAL CIRCUMSTANCES OF RESPONSIBLE PET OWNERS, WHO MAY UNFAIRLY BE UNFAIRLY PENALIZED. EXEMPTIONS FOR CERTAIN ANIMAL CATEGORIES.

THE ORDINANCE NOW PROVIDES EXEMPTIONS FROM STERILIZATION, STERILIZATION FOR LICENSED BREEDERS,

[01:55:04]

WORKING DOGS, OR DOGS BRED FOR SPECIFIC PURPOSES UNDER TEXAS LAW.

OCCUPATIONS. CODE 802.005. HOWEVER, SERVICE ANIMALS ARE NOT EXPLICITLY EXEMPT.

SERVICE ANIMALS OFTEN REMAIN INTACT DUE TO SPECIFIC TRAINING, BEHAVIORAL, AND MEDICAL CONSIDERATIONS. FAILING TO INCLUDE SERVICE ANIMALS AS AN EXEMPTION COULD CREATE CONFLICTS WITH THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT, SO PROPOSED ADJUSTMENTS CLARIFY ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS. REVISING THE STERILIZATION. STERILIZATION AGE REQUIREMENT.

REVISING THE SECOND IMPOUNDMENT RULE AND EXPLICITLY EXEMPTING SERVICE ANIMALS FROM STERILIZATION REQUIREMENT TO ALIGN WITH ADA PROTECTIONS.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. CLAUDE MILTON.

COUNCIL MEMBERS. MAYOR. APPRECIATE IT. I'M CLAUDE MILTON, BEEN A RESIDENT OF ABILENE SINCE 1980, BEEN A DOG OWNER SINCE THEN. I AM A MEMBER OF THE ABILENE KENNEL CLUB AND OUR PARENT ORGANIZATION, THE AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB. I'M A DOG TRAINER. AND I APPRECIATE YOU ALL DOING THE CHANGES YOU DID TO THE THE THE FIRST READING, TO THE SECOND READING.

AND AS A MEMBER OF THE CLUB, THE ABILENE KENNEL CLUB, WE I SUPPORT THE CHANGES YOU ALL MADE.

AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THAT. OUR CLUB REPRESENTS BREEDERS, VETERINARIANS PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF PROVIDING SERVICES FOR DOGS AS MYSELF, LIKE A TRAINER.

AND I THINK WE DO NEED TO BE EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE A RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNER.

AND WE CONCUR WITH THE PRACTICES OF ALL THESE, YOU KNOW, STRAY ANIMALS THE, THE PROLIFERATION OF, OF OUR KENNELS OR THE OUTREACH, OUR DOG POUND BEING FULL ALREADY.

AND AS A CLUB WE PRACTICE, WE TRY TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC.

YOU KNOW THAT WE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS AND SPAY AND NEUTER OUR DOGS.

IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE BREEDERS OR OR PEOPLE WHO USE THEIR DOGS FOR SEARCH AND RESCUE, THERAPY DOGS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS. SO AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE CHANGES.

THEY WERE POSITIVE AND WE LOOK FORWARD. AND AGAIN WE LIKE TO SUPPORT THIS THIS ORDINANCE.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. MILTON. THOMAS MCINTYRE.

HE LEFT ANGELA TOMLIN. HI.

THANKS, GUYS, I'M ANGELA TOMLIN, PRESIDENT OF THE ABILENE KENNEL CLUB.

AND I'M GOING TO KIND OF FOLLOW ON SOME OF WHAT MY FELLOW MEMBERS SAID.

I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE ON COUNCIL AND MAYOR HERBERT MR. HANNA FOR ALL OF THE TIME THAT YOU SPENT REVIEWING THE COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF INFORMATION THAT WE PROVIDED THAT WAS GIVEN TO US BY AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB AND SOME OF THE LOCAL VETERINARIANS THAT ARE A PART OF OUR GROUP.

WE ALSO WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE ARE, AS AN ORGANIZATION, HERE TO BE A SOUNDING BOARD, PROVIDE INFORMATION PRIOR TO ANY OF THIS INFORMATION COMING TO LIGHT.

I'VE HAD A MEETING WITH SOME OF THE POWERS THAT BE AT ALL KINDS TO TRY TO JOIN FORCES WITH THEM TO HELP PROMOTE RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERSHIP.

AND SO WE WOULD LOVE TO BE THAT VOICE, AND WE DO LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THEM, TO THEM TO COME ON BOARD WITH WHAT WE'VE DONE AT THE MALL OF ABILENE TO TEACH RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERSHIP TO CHILDREN IN MALL PROGRAMS AND OTHER PROGRAMS THAT WOULD HELP HELP SPONSOR THAT FOR OUR COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT'S IT. THANKS, GUYS.

THANK YOU. THANKS, ANGELA. MORE CARDS. MORE CARDS ON THIS CARDS.

BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM 29? PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. NO ONE.

I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. MAYOR, MAY I INTERRUPT REGARDING THE QUESTION ABOUT THE LICENSED VETERINARY CERTIFICATION FOR THE STERILIZATION? THAT'S IT'S IN IT'S IN BOTH SECTIONS OF THE CODE.

IT WAS JUST NOT ON MY SLIDE. SO IT'S ALREADY IN THERE.

YOU'RE SAYING THE EXEMPTION. THE EXEMPTION FOR STERILIZATION.

RIGHT. RIGHT HERE. SEE SUBSECTION C THE SECOND TIME THEY WERE PICKED UP.

[02:00:01]

THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S RIGHT THERE. BUT IT SAYS IT ONLY APPLIES TO SUBSECTION B, WHICH IS THAT SUBSECTION C IS THE SECOND TIME THEY'RE PICKED UP.

AND THAT'S THE ONLY EXEMPTION FOR C. YEAH. IS IT THAT IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME.

NO IT'S NOT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE 802.0 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT EBOOK READERS. NO, THIS IS THIS IS BEING PICKED UP.

BUT THERE'S. SO SECTION 694, WHICH IS ON PAGE 604 OF THE PACKET. YES. AS SECTION B, AN OWNER RECLAIMING A DOG OR CAT OVER SIX, EIGHT MONTHS.

YES, SIR. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IT'S PICKED UP.

RIGHT. AND SO TWO UNDER B, AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE TO STERILIZATION REQUIREMENT OF SUBSECTION B HAS A LICENSED BREEDER. 802.05 AND AN ANIMAL THAT'S TRAINED FOR GOVERNMENT AGENCY AND POLICE WORK OR RESCUE WORK.

AND THEN SEE IS IF THEY'RE PICKED UP THE SECOND TIME AND C1 IS THE THE EXEMPTIONS UNDER SUBSECTION C, WHICH IS ONLY LICENSED VETERINARY AND PERMANENTLY NON-FERTILE.

AND SO IT'S UNDER B1 WHICH I DID NOT HAVE ON THE SLIDE, WHICH IS AN EXCEPTION.

IT'S NOT EVEN AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE. IT'S AN EXCEPTION. IF SOMEONE PROVES THAT THE ANIMAL IS DECEASED, OR IF THEY HAVE A VETERINARIAN CERTIFICATION THAT THE ANIMAL SHOULD NOT BE STERILIZED.

IT'S AN EXCEPTION B1 A RIGHT SECOND B1 A OR B1 A.

THE SECOND PART DEALS WITH THE VETERINARIAN, BUT I THINK WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER WAS SAYING IS HE THOUGHT THAT THE 802.05 AND THE POLICE RESCUE WORK EXEMPTIONS AND THE LICENSED BREEDER APPLIED TO THE SECOND IMPOUNDMENT.

YOU KNOW, WHAT I WAS SAYING IS THERE'S AN EXCEPTION TO BOTH CIRCUMSTANCES.

IF THERE'S A LICENSE BET INVOLVED. EXCUSE ME.

OKAY, SO ARE YOU. ARE WE WANTING TO HAVE THOSE EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE ON THE FIRST PICKUP? APPLY TO THE SECOND PICKUP OR ONLY THE VET? AND BECAUSE, BY THE WAY, IT'S WRITTEN, A POLICE DOG THAT'S PICKED UP TWICE WOULD FALL UNDER THIS REQUIREMENT OF SPAY NEUTER.

YEAH, IT'S MAYBE AN OVERSIGHT ON MY PART, BUT THE INTENTION IS TO HAVE THE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE TEXAS OCCUPATION CODE.

THE LIST OF EXCEPTIONS THAT WERE FOR THE FIRST FIRST PICKUP APPLY FOR THE SECOND PICKUP, TOO.

SO IT MAY BE JUST NEED TO MIRROR. SO WE NEED TO DUPLICATE THE OCCUPATION CODE.

EXCEPTIONS ARE NOT IN THIS SECTION AT ALL. THEY'RE ONLY IN THE BREEDERS PERMIT IF YOU WANT THOSE IN THE EXCEPTIONS TO STERILIZATION.

THEY ARE IT'S IT'S 694 I'M SORRY. YES YOU'RE RIGHT V TWO ARE THE STERILIZATION EXCEPTIONS.

THAT DEAL WITH THE LICENSED BREEDER. 80205 AND THE POLICE AND RESCUE WORK ANIMALS.

AND THERE'S NOT A C2 THAT MIRRORS THAT THAT HAS THOSE SAME EXEMPTIONS WHERE IT SAYS SECTION B AND IT THEN GIVES THE EXCEPTIONS, YOU COULD SAY FOR SECTION B AND C, OR YOU COULD JUST RINSE AND REPEAT FOR SECTION C.

IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION OF COUNCIL, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT'S WRITTEN. YEAH. AND I THINK IT'S WRITTEN THE WAY THAT IT IS BECAUSE THE SECOND PICKUP IS, IS IS NOT AN OFFENSE UNLESS THEY MISREPRESENT THAT THE ANIMAL IS STERILIZED.

THE SECOND PICKUP, WE JUST STERILIZED THE ANIMAL AND WE DON'T WRITE A CITATION.

SO THERE'S NO AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IN COURT, BUT IT COULD BE WRITTEN AS AN EXCEPTION THAT WE DON'T DO IT AT ALL.

YEAH, BUT I THINK THAT WAS THE INTENT. YEAH, IT WAS THE INTENT.

WE WANT TO AVOID IS LET'S SAY LET'S SAY THAT WAS IT TOOTSIE? TOOTSIE, TOOTSIE? LET'S SAY TOOTSIE. TOOTSIE IS A SHOW CHIHUAHUA, RIGHT? AND SO, TOOTSIE, WE PICK HER UP. SHE'S VISITING PEOPLE, AND SHE GETS PICKED UP, AND HEY, HERE'S THE DEFENSE.

IT MEETS A QUALIFY. IT QUALIFIES THIS AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE.

WELL, SHE GETS OUT AGAIN THROUGH NO FAULT OF HER OWN. SOMETHING HAPPENS. SHE JUST GETS OUT, AND WE HAPPEN TO PICK HER UP AGAIN.

WELL, WE'LL KNOW. HEY. OKAY. SHE'S GOT TOOTSIE.

HE'S GOT AN EXEMPTION. AND SO WE WOULDN'T BE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE TO FORCIBLY SPAY OR NEUTER A DOG THAT CLEARLY WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE SPAYED OR NEUTERED.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REPEAT THAT, THAT TO PROVIDE EVERYBODY THE COMFORT AND KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS ONLY APPLIES TO ANIMALS THAT DON'T MEET ONE OF THESE FOUR EXCEPTIONS OR FIVE EXCEPTIONS. OKAY. SO WHENEVER WE MAKE THE MOTION, I'D LIKE US TO DUPLICATE THAT AND ASK FOR THE SECOND POINT.

THE SERVICE DOG LANGUAGE, WHICH IS ALREADY COVERED UNDER STATE LAW, BUT WHERE WE'VE DUPLICATED THAT BEFORE.

AND ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE SERVICE ANIMAL APPLICATION TO THE SPAY NEUTER OR TO THE BREEDER? SAME EXEMPTIONS WE'RE WORKS TENDING TO HUNTING DOGS, AND WE NEED TO HAVE A SERVICE DOG IN THERE.

OKAY. FOR BOTH. BOTH THE SPAY NEUTER AND THE BREEDING.

[02:05:02]

IF IT'S A IF IT'S A COMMERCIAL BREEDER, I MEAN, IF WE'RE EXEMPTING PEOPLE THAT ARE PRODUCING HUNTING DOGS FROM THE COMMERCIAL BREEDERS PERMIT, WHY WOULDN'T WE EXEMPT PEOPLE THAT ARE PRODUCING SERVICE DOGS? AND THAT'S MY THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S THE BREEDERS PERMIT.

CORRECT. BUT MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, ARE YOU ALSO WANTING TO APPLY THAT TO THE SPAY NEUTER REQUIREMENT ON BEING PICKED UP? NO. OKAY. NO, BECAUSE I DID GOOGLE THAT WITH THE QUESTION THAT CAME UP WITH REGARD TO THE ADA.

AND THERE'S SOME ENTITIES THAT DO SERVICE ANIMALS.

AND ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS IS THAT THEY BE SPAYED NEUTERED. AND SO I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S AN ADA VIOLATION.

IF WE HAVE A SPAY NEUTER REQUIREMENT THAT IS TRIGGERED BY AN ANIMAL BEING PICKED UP A SECOND TIME OR, YOU KNOW, PICKED UP BECAUSE THEY'RE LOOSE. NO.

IF THERE'S A SERVICE DOG THAT CONTINUALLY ESCAPES.

I'M NOT ADVOCATING FOR AN EXEMPTION TO SPAY NEUTER.

I'M SIMPLY ADVOCATING FOR AN EXEMPTION TO THE BREEDERS PERMIT THAT WE'RE EXTENDING TO HUNTING DOGS AND TRACKING DOGS AND ALL THAT.

THAT WOULD INCLUDE SERVICE DOGS IN THAT EXEMPTION.

I'VE GOT I'VE GOT MY NOTES FOR THE MOTION THROUGH THE DISCUSSION.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE ONE WITH THE DISCUSSION.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE THROUGH WITH THE DISCUSSION. LET'S GO AHEAD AND GET THE MOTION, AND THEN WE'LL FINISH THE DISCUSSION SO THAT WE GET THE MOTION THAT WE'RE I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE CORRECT OR THE CHANGES. 618.

REFERENCES TO 693 NEED TO BE CORRECTED TO 692 AND THEN 630 4D1 THAT WE ADD SERVICE ANIMALS AND AS AN EXEMPTION FROM THE BREEDER PERMIT REQUIREMENT.

AND THEN 694 B2 THAT WE APPLY THE EXEMPTIONS THAT ARE IN B TO C.

SO C TWO REFLECTS WHAT'S B2. BUT IT'S NOT A IT'S NOT A DEFENSE, IT'S A IT'S A NOT REQUIRED OR HOWEVER THE LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE STANLEY FOR THAT SINCE IT'S, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE BEFORE THE FACT INSTEAD OF AFTER THE FACT.

SO THAT'S THAT'S MY MOTION. SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BEARD.

YEAH. I'D LIKE TO SAY I'M SORRY THAT OUR DISCUSSION PUT YOUR DOG TO SLEEP.

THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE FOURTH LAST QUESTION THAT BLAZE WAS GOING TO ASK.

HE WENT TO SLEEP, BUT I, YOU KNOW, THIS THIS THIS IS A GREAT THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF HOW WE CAN COME TOGETHER AND LOOK AT SOMETHING AND MAKE CHANGES AND COME BACK TO EVERYTHING. AND I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THE GENTLEMAN HERE.

YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING HAPPENS AND IT'S NOT THE FAULT OF THE, YOU KNOW, JUST STUFF HAPPENS. I WOULD HOPE THAT WE HAVE AND I THINK WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO KIND OF LOOK AT THESE THINGS WITH SOME COMMON SENSE.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, I THINK IF DOGS GET OUT BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN THAT WE CAN WE HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE WHEN IT COMES TO STUFF LIKE THIS.

BUT BUT I APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE GOING TO MISS WITH, WITH MR. HANNA IS HIS LOVE FOR ANIMALS.

AND I APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF THIS CAME FROM THIS, BUT ALSO OUR DOG LOVERS AND CAT LOVERS.

I'M NOT A CAT LOVER. OKAY. BUT I APPRECIATE THAT YOU ARE.

BUT I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT WE'VE COME TOGETHER AND WORKED TO GET THIS IN THE BEST PLACE FOR FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED.

SO I THANK YOU AND MR. HANNA AND EVERYONE ELSE, STANLEY, FOR PUTTING THIS ALL TOGETHER.

I'M GLAD WE HAVE THE AGGRESSIVE DOG THING THAT WE'RE ADDING AS WELL.

YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THAT WE WANTED WAS TO DEAL WITH AGGRESSIVE DOGS.

SO I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN PRICE. I HAVE A SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BEARD.

IS THAT CORRECT? IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? READY TO VOTE? DO WE NEED TO WAIT FOR LYNN TO COME BACK? HE VOTED FOR. HE LEFT. OH, OKAY. OH, YES. HIS MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION CARRIES. THANK EVERYONE FOR THAT WONDERFUL DISCUSSION.

WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 30. AND I'LL ASK TIM LITTLEJOHN, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICE,

[30. Ordinance (Final Reading) CUP-2025-03: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on a Request from the Owner, to Apply a Conditional Use Permit to Approximately 0.9 Acres to Allow for Contractor Services within General Commercial (GC) Zoning, Located at 625 ES 11th Street (Tim Littlejohn)]

TO PRESENT THIS ITEM. THANK YOU, MAYOR COUNCIL, FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION TODAY AS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.

202503 OWNER IS STEVE AND DIANA WALKER. THE REQUEST FOR YOU TO CONSIDER IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR CONTRACTOR SERVICES WITHIN GENERAL COMMERCIAL LOCATED AT 625 EAST SOUTH 11TH STREET.

HERE'S THE LOCATION MAP. HERE'S THE CURRENT ZONING MAP.

THIS IS GENERAL COMMERCIAL, WHICH REQUIRES FOR CONTRACTOR SERVICE TO GET A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.

HERE ARE THE ALLOWABLE CONDITIONS. NOW. HERE ARE THE PROPERTY VALUES.

HERE'S THE SITE PLAN THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT SHOWING THE LAYOUT OF THE LOT.

NOTIFICATIONS. WORSE THAN THAT, WE DID RECEIVE ONE IN FAVOR AND ZERO OPPOSED.

THIS REQUEST IS CONSISTENT AND MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL WITHIN THE LDC.

P AND Z DID HEAR THIS CASE AND THEY ARE RECOMMENDING TO YOU APPROVAL THIS MORNING, SUBJECT TO THE PLAN OF OPERATIONS, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. QUESTIONS OF TIM.

AT THIS TIME I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST ITEM NUMBER 30?

[02:10:01]

PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. SEEING NO ONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND.

SO MOVED. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN REAGAN.

A SECOND. SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BEARD, A DISCUSSION.

WE'RE READY TO VOTE. ALL YESES, MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION CARRIES. WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 31. AND ONCE AGAIN, I'LL ASK TIM LITTLEJOHN TO PRESENT THIS ITEM.

[31. Ordinance (Final Reading) CUP-2025-04: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on a Request from the Owner, Represented by Precision Contractors, to Apply a Conditional Use Permit to Approximately 1.81 Acres Zoned General Commercial to Allow Freight containers, Located at 718 S. Clack Street (Tim Littlejohn)]

THANK YOU. MAYOR. COUNCIL FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.

202504 AGENT IS PRECISION CONTRACTORS. THE REQUEST IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR FREIGHT CONTAINERS AT 718 SOUTH CLARK STREET. HERE'S THE LOCATION MAP. HERE'S THE CURRENT ZONING MAP.

HERE ARE THE ALLOWABLE USES WITHIN GENERAL COMMERCIAL.

HERE'S THEIR CONCEPT PLAN SHOWING THE LOCATIONS OF THE SHIPPING CONTAINERS WITH WITH THE SCREENING FENCE INSTALLED.

HERE'S WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE LOCATIONS IN THE FENCE IS BEING CONSTRUCTED AT THE MOMENT.

NOTIFICATIONS. WORSE THAN THAT, WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY IN FAVOR OR ANY OPPOSED TO THIS REQUEST.

THIS REQUEST IS CONSISTENT WITH ALL THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL WITHIN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

PNC DID HERE. IN THIS CASE, THEY ARE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION THAT A BUILDING PERMIT MUST BE APPLIED FOR WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THIS APPROVAL, AND THE FREIGHT CONTAINERS ARE SUBJECT TO THE SUBMITTED CONCEPT PLAN AND ALL APPLICABLE LDC REQUIREMENTS.

AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. QUESTIONS FOR TIM.

TIM, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN DOING THIS, AND THEY ARE NOW TRYING TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE AND DO IT THE RIGHT WAY? THAT IS CORRECT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU TIM. AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST? ITEM 31, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

SEEING NO ONE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, I WILL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND.

SO MOVED. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN YATES.

SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN PRICE. FURTHER DISCUSSION.

WE'RE READY TO VOTE. OH, YES. MOTION CARRIES.

CARRIES. WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 32. AND ONCE AGAIN, TIM LITTLEJOHN.

[32. Ordinance (Final Reading) CUP-2025-05: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on a Request from the Owner, to Apply a Conditional Use Permit to Approximately 15.03 Acres to Allow an RV (Recreational Vehicle) Park, Located at 3201 Dub Wright Blvd. (Tim Littlejohn)]

HEY, TIM. THANK YOU. MAYOR. COUNCIL FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.

IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. 202505. THE OWNER IS PATRICIA NAIL.

AGENT IS JACOB MARTIN. THE REQUEST FOR YOU CONSIDER IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR AN RV PARK LOCATED AT 3201 DE BRIGHT.

HERE'S THE LOCATION MAP. HERE'S THE CURRENT ZONING MAP.

HERE'S THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN THAT THEY ARE PROPOSING.

IT'S APPROXIMATELY ABOUT 130 30 SPACES, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO COUNT THEM.

HERE'S THE PROPERTY USE. NOTIFICATIONS WERE SENT OUT.

WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY IN RETURN. THIS MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL WITHIN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

P AND Z DID HEAR THIS CASE AND THEY ARE RECOMMENDING TO YOU APPROVAL OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, SUBJECT TO THE CONCEPT PLAN AND THE PLAN OF OPERATION.

I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. QUESTIONS OF KIM.

AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THIS LATEST PACKET UPDATE WENT BACK TO ONE PART SAYING QUIET HOURS ARE 9 P.M.

TO 7 A.M. AND ANOTHER PART SAYING THEY'RE 10 P.M.

TO 7 A.M. AND IT'S 10 P.M. TO 7 A.M. IS WHAT SHOULD BE.

RIGHT. THEY MADE THAT CORRECTION. IT WAS A CLERICAL ERROR.

WELL, WE GOT WE GOT THAT. BUT THIS LATEST PACKET STILL HAS THE 9 P.M..

SO IT'S 10 P.M.. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. TIM. THANKS, TIM.

AT THIS TIME, I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST? ITEM 32, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

HELLO, CLAYTON. CLAYTON. FARROW, JACOB AND MARTIN, AGENT FOR THE OWNER. THIS IS A CUP FOR RV PARK, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY OF THEM.

OF ME. QUESTIONS, CLAYTON. THANK YOU. CLAYTON.

APPRECIATE YOU GUYS. STILL IN THE PUBLIC HEARING. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM 32? SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, I WILL ACCEPT A MOTION. AND A SECOND.

SO MOVED. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER.

SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN REAGAN. FURTHER DISCUSSION.

WE'RE READY TO VOTE. ALL YESES. MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION CARRIES. WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 33. AND ONCE AGAIN, TIM LITTLEJOHN.

[33. Ordinance (Final Reading) Z-2025-03: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on a Request from the Owner, to Change the Zoning of Approximately 22.14 Acres from Agricultural Open (AO) to Multi Family (MF) Located at 6310 Butterfield Trail (Tim Littlejohn)]

[02:15:03]

HEY, TIM. THANK YOU, MAYOR. COUNCIL, FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.

THE ZONING CASE 202503. THE AGENT IS JACOB MARTIN.

THE REQUEST FOR YOU TO CONSIDER IS TO CHANGE THE ZONING OF APPROXIMATELY 22.14 ACRES FROM AGRICULTURAL OPEN SPACE TO MULTIFAMILY.

LOCATION IS 63104 BUTTERFIELD TRAIL. HERE'S THE LOCATION MAP.

HERE'S THE CURRENT ZONING MAP. HERE'S THE PROPERTY VIEWS.

HERE ARE THE CURRENT ALLOWABLE USES WITHIN THAT DISTRICT.

AND HERE ARE THE ALLOWABLE USES WITHIN THE PROPOSED DISTRICT.

NOTIFICATIONS WERE SENT OUT. WE DID RECEIVE TWO IN FAVOR AND ZERO OPPOSED.

THIS REQUEST IS CONSISTENT WITH ALL THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL WITHIN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

P AND Z DID HEAR THIS CASE AND THEY ARE RECOMMENDING TO YOU APPROVAL, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

ANY QUESTIONS FOR TIM. THANK YOU TIM. AT THIS TIME I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST? ITEM 33, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

CLAYTON, FARROW, JACOB AND MARTIN, AGENT FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER.

AGAIN, THIS IS A MULTIFAMILY. I THINK WE AGREE WITH STAFF.

I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE AREA BETWEEN MD AND GC.

I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY OF THEM. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE ALWAYS. ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM 33? I WILL NOW CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND IF THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION.

SO MOVED. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER.

I MADE THE MOTION. I GUESS I BEAT YOU TO THE BUTTON, KYLE.

I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN BEARD. SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN PRICE.

THEY RAN YOU OFF. KYLE, I KNOW OUR DISCUSSION.

WE'RE READY TO VOTE. HE'S GOT THEM FAT FINGERS.

OH, YES. THIS MOTION CARRIES. I'LL MOVE TO ITEM 34 AND TIM LITTLEJOHN.

[34. Ordinance (Final Reading): Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on an Ordinance of the City of Abilene, Texas, and Providing for the Extension of the Boundary Limits of the City of Abilene, Texas, and for the Annexation of Certain Territory - 31 acres - Lying Adjacent and Contiguous to the Present Boundary Limits of the City of Abilene, and Granting to All the Inhabitants of Territory, all the Rights and Privileges of other Citizens and Binding the Inhabitants by All of the Acts, Ordinances, Resolutions and Regulations of the City of Abilene; and Adopting a Service Plan Agreement (Tim Littlejohn)]

THANK YOU. MAYOR. COUNCIL UP FOR CONSIDERATION IS AN ANNEXATION OF APPROXIMATELY 31 ACRES INTO THE CITY LIMITS OF THE CITY OF ABILENE.

THIS IS A REQUEST MADE BY LANGHAM ABILENE LLC.

AND THEY DESIRE TO BRING THIS 31 ACRE TRACK TO BE ANNEXED WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.

THIS MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS PURSUANT TO THE TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE 430 43.016.

STAFF SUPPORTS THIS ANNEXATION ANNEXATION REQUEST, AND WE HAVE DONE ALL THE PROCEDURES THAT THE LAW REQUIRES FOR THIS REQUEST.

HERE'S THE THE LOCATION MAP. THIS IS THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE CURRENT PROJECT LOCATED OFF OF SPINKS ROAD.

AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING TO YOU APPROVAL THIS MORNING, AND I'D. I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. QUESTIONS? TIM.

TIM. AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST ITEM 34.

FOR OR AGAINST ITEM 34. PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. I HAVE ONE CARD.

MAYOR CHARLES BASHAM, CHARLES BASHAM. CHARLES BASHAM, LIFELONG RESIDENT, LIVED OUT HERE FOR 13 YEARS.

ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS PROPERTY, I OPPOSE THE ANNEXATION.

SEVERAL CONCERNS. THE IS THIS GOING TO BE BLANKET COVERED WITH THE REST OF THE PROJECT? AUTOMATIC ZONING LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, HEAVY INDUSTRIAL.

ALL THIS TALK ABOUT THE MONEY AND DEBT WE HAD EARLIER? THEY GOT AN $80 MILLION PLUS A YEAR ABATEMENT.

OF COURSE, WE HAVE THE STREET PROBLEMS, TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, ANY OF THAT FACTOR INTO THIS? ASSUMING THIS WILL PASS EVENTUALLY, PLANNING AND ZONING WILL PASS IT.

GO TO LIGHT INDUSTRIAL. HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. IS THERE ANY NOISE ORDINANCES OR LIGHT ORDINANCES? I MOVED OUT IN THE COUNTRY TO BE OUT IN THE COUNTRY. NOW THE CITY'S THERE.

DON'T REALLY WANT TO LOOK AT PARKING LOT LIGHTS OR SECURITY LIGHTS.

THEY'VE ALREADY CLEARED OFF, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, 8 OR 900 ACRES OF VEGETATION.

AND NOT THAT MESQUITE TREES OR CEDAR TREES OR THAT GREAT TO LOOK AT, BUT BETTER THAN A PARKING LOT.

THAT'S ALL THE CONCERNS I HAVE FOR TODAY. ANY MORE CARDS ON THIS ITEM? MISS TURNER, CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT? DO YOU MIND?

[02:20:06]

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE ZONING WILL BE DONE LATER.

IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. THE ZONING WILL BE DONE THROUGH P AND Z AND COME TO COUNCIL THROUGH A SEPARATE PROCESS. BUT YEAH, I THINK THEIR INTENTION IS TO ZONE IT AND CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE PROPERTY. AS FAR AS NOISE ORDINANCES AND LIGHT ORDINANCES, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WILL CONTROL THOSE AREAS.

THE NOISE ORDINANCE SECTION OF THIS OF THE CITY'S ORDINANCE DOES HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS NOISE BEING GENERATED. HOWEVER COUNCIL MAY WANT TO CONSIDER LOOKING AT THE NOISE ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, GOING FORWARD. IT HASN'T BEEN UPDATED IN QUITE SOME TIME.

AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SECTIONS OF THE NOISE ORDINANCE THAT COULD BE REVIEWED.

I DON'T THINK THAT ANY REVIEW OR ANY ADDITIONAL ADDITIONS TO THE NOISE ORDINANCE YOU COULD DO WOULD ALLEVIATE THE GENTLEMAN'S CONCERNS SPECIFICALLY.

BUT I JUST WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU, IF YOU'VE NOT READ THAT, TO GO READ IT.

THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT, AND THERE ARE SOME AREAS WHERE THE NOISE ORDINANCE COULD BE BEEFED UP FOR SURE, BUT IT IS JUST A CONTINUATION OF THAT PROPERTY.

YES, SIR. YES IT IS. THANK YOU. WE'RE STILL IN THE PUBLIC HEARING.

WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM 34? SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND.

SO MOVED. HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN YATES. SECOND.

SECOND BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER. HE GOT IT IN.

I GOT IT. I'M READY TO VOTE. ALL YESES, MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION CARRIES. WHEN I MOVED TO ITEM 35. AND I'LL ASK TIM LITTLEJOHN ONCE AGAIN.

[35. Ordinance (Final Reading): Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on an Ordinance of the City of Abilene, Texas, and Providing for the Extension of the Boundary Limits of the City of Abilene, Texas, and for the Annexation of Certain Territory - 28.58 acres - Lying Adjacent and Contiguous to the Present Boundary Limits of the City of Abilene, and Granting to All the Inhabitants of Territory, all the Rights and Privileges of other Citizens and Binding the Inhabitants by All of the Acts, Ordinances, Resolutions and Regulations of the City of Abilene; and Adopting a Service Plan Agreement (Tim Littlejohn)]

THANK YOU. MAYOR. COUNCIL UP FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION IS ANNEXATION OF APPROXIMATELY 28.58 ACRES INTO THE CITY LIMITS OF THE CITY OF ABILENE. THIS IS A REQUEST BY LANGHAM ABILENE, LLC.

THEY DESIRE THAT THEIR PROPERTY BE BROUGHT INTO THE CITY LIMITS.

THIS MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA WITHIN THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE 43.016.

SINCE THE QUESTION WAS ASKED EARLIER, THIS WILL BE BROUGHT IN AS AGRICULTURE OPEN SPACE.

BUT WE WILL BE BRINGING THIS INTO THE PD 181 THAT'S EXISTING AND AS A REMINDER THAT THEY'LL THAT WILL CONTINUE THE 200 FOOT BUFFER AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THEIR PROPERTY FOR THE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP.

HERE'S THE LOCATION MAP. THIS IS ON THE NORTH SIDE.

ON THE RIGHT OFF OF 2404. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING TO YOU APPROVAL THIS MORNING, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

QUESTIONS, TIM. THANK YOU. TIM. AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST ITEM 35, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

ME AGAIN? SAME RESPONSES AS THE FIRST ONE. SAME CONCERNS.

WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ANOTHER ONE, THE 200 FOOT BUFFER THAT'S AROUND THIS PROPERTY THAT'S ALREADY BEEN VIOLATED.

WHO ENFORCES THAT AND HOW IS THAT ENFORCED? IF THE BUFFER IS VIOLATED, THE PLANNING AND ZONING WOULD PURSUE THAT.

I DO KNOW THAT A PORTION OF IT MAY HAVE BEEN VIOLATED, BUT THAT'S DUE TO ATMOS GAS REROUTING THEIR MAIN GAS LINE AROUND THE PROPERTY EDGE.

BUT ANYTHING THAT'S VIOLATED BEFORE THE CEOS ARE ISSUED ON THIS PROJECT, WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE IN PLACE.

THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM 35? SEEING NO ONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.

I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND. SO MOVED. HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER.

SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BEARD. WE'RE READY TO VOTE.

OH, YES. THIS MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES.

WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 36, AND I'LL ASK MAX JOHNSON, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, TO PRESENT THIS ITEM.

[36. Presentation: Receive a Report and Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing and Provide Direction on Homeless Initiatives (Max Johnson)]

GOOD MORNING, MR. MAYOR. COUNCILMAN. I'M ON THE TAIL END OF THE TIM LITTLEJOHN SHOW, BUT I DO HAVE JUST A QUICK PRESENTATION TO GIVE THIS MORNING IN REGARDS TO SOME OF THE HOMELESS SITUATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN ABILENE.

I DID WANT TO DO A DISCLAIMER THAT SOME OF THE INFORMATION IN HERE IS ALSO FROM IS A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT BETWEEN APD AND PUBLIC WORKS.

SO SOME OF THE INFORMATION PRESENTED, BUT THERE ARE SOME REPRESENTATIVES FROM APD THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS WHEN THEY ARISE.

[02:25:04]

THERE ARE MANY KNOWN LOCATIONS AROUND ABILENE THAT ARE UTILIZED BY OUR HOMELESS POPULATIONS.

MANY OF THESE PLACES DON'T HAVE RUNNING WATER.

THEY DON'T HAVE SANITATION. THEY BECOME UNSIGHTLY AND UNSANITARY.

IN 2024, APD HAS RECEIVED OVER 4000 CALLS FOR SERVICE RELATED TO PERTAINING TO HOMELESS POPULATIONS, ETC. ONCE IDENTIFIED OR A COMPLAINT IS RECEIVED.

APD AND STAFF WILL GO AND DISPERSE THE POPULATION IN THOSE CAMPING LOCATIONS.

ONCE DISPERSED, HOMELESS POPULATION TEND TO JUST TRAVEL TO DIFFERENT AREAS.

THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER. WE'LL GO AND EVALUATE THE AREAS OF THESE ENCAMPMENTS.

IF IT IS AN UNSANITARY CONDITION, WE WILL GO IN AND CLEAN THEM.

SOME OF THOSE CLEANUPS TAKE THE PROPERTY THAT'S LEFT BEHIND.

RUBBISH, HUMAN WASTE, OTHER STUFF THAT'S IN THOSE THOSE AREAS.

CLEANUP EFFORTS CAN LAST FOR HOURS. SOME CAN LAST FOR DAYS.

SEVERAL THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT CAN GO INTO WEEK, MAYBE EVEN TWO WEEKS FOR THESE CLEANUPS.

I DID BRING A SHOW AND TELL ITEM. SO THESE WE ARE STARTING TO PUT AT THE CITY PROPERTY LOCATIONS THAT WE HAVE WHICH JUST ENFORCES THAT CITY PROPERTY. THERE IS NO CAMPING.

THERE IS NO TRESPASSING ON THOSE AREAS. SO I HAVE PUT SLIDES TOGETHER FOR THREE LOCATIONS. FIRST LOCATION IS AT ELM CREEK AT SOUTH FIRST.

THIS ONE WAS IN THE NEWS SEVERAL YEARS AGO. AND JUST HAVE THESE.

THESE ARE SOME PICTURES TAKEN JANUARY, FEBRUARY LAST YEAR OF THE CONDITIONS IN THAT AREA.

NEXT SLIDE SHOWS THE. THIS IS THE BEFORE. THIS IS THE AFTER SLIDES.

THIS WAS A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT BETWEEN STAFF AND A CONTRACTOR COMING IN TO CLEAN THIS AREA.

NEXT PROPERTY IS THE HIGHWAY 80. PROPERTY. THIS IS NEAR THE CEDAR CREEK NEW CEDAR CREEK TRAIL, AS WELL AS THE MARTIN LUTHER KING BRIDGE. THIS IS A CITY PROPERTY.

I HAVE SEVERAL PICTURES THERE OF ENCAMPMENTS PEOPLE GETTING CREATIVE WITH TENTS AND OTHER CONSTRUCTION MATERIAL IN THOSE AREAS. AND THEN THE THIRD ONE IS THE PROCTOR SITE.

THIS IS OFF OF NORTH FIRST, KIND OF ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN.

THIS IS AN AREA THAT THE CITY HAS A MATERIAL YARD.

BUT IN THE PAST, THERE'S BEEN A PRIVATE PROPERTY SECTION THAT'S BEEN ATTACHED TO IT, WHICH IS A KNOWN ENCAMPMENT FOR THE HOMELESS.

WE ARE ACTUALLY IN THE PROCESS. THESE PICTURES ARE ONLY A COUPLE OF WEEKS OLD.

WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING A CLEANUP AT THIS SITE.

THAT IS IS ONGOING. ONCE WE WE FINISH THE CLEANUP OF THIS SITE, WE WILL INSTALL THE SIGNS TO MAKE IT KNOWN THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC NO TRESPASSING, NO CAMPING AREA.

LAST SLIDE I HAVE IS SOME ESTIMATED COST. I POINT OUT THAT THESE ARE ESTIMATES, BUT THOSE THREE CLEANUPS THAT WE JUST SPOKE ABOUT, THE ELM CREEK, THE HIGHWAY 80 AND THE PROCTOR ARE LISTED THERE.

THOSE AREN'T THE ONLY CLEANUPS THAT WE'VE DONE, HOWEVER, AND AND YOU'LL SEE THAT WITH TOTAL LABOR, EQUIPMENT, MATERIALS. THE LANDFILL FEES, ETC..

THE CLEANUPS LAST YEAR ARE ESTIMATED ABOUT $96,500.

AND THEN I'VE ALSO GOT AN AP STAT THERE OF THEIR 4000, WITH AN AVERAGE TIME OF AN HOUR WITH TWO OFFICERS EQUALS ABOUT 385,000. SO THOSE ARE THE SLIDES I HAVE.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THAT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER OR GO AFTER? I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. AND I'D ASK THAT THIS BE PUT ON, PUT ON THE AGENDA.

AND SO I'M EXCITED TO DISCUSS IT. FIRST OFF, ON THE CLEANUPS, HOW HOW LONG DOES THE CLEANUP LAST, OR WHAT'S THE WE GO IN AND WE CLEAN IT UP, AND THEN HOW LONG DOES THAT CLEANUP LAST? YEAH. SO IT REALLY JUST DEPENDS ON SOME CAN LAST FOR FOR DAYS.

WE TRY ONCE WE DO A CLEANUP. MY FOLKS, MY PUBLIC WORK FOLKS WE TRY TO GO BACK TO THOSE SITES.

[02:30:02]

WHILE WE'RE OUT DOING OTHER PROJECTS AND THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE DON'T IMMEDIATELY MOVE BACK IN, BUT THAT'S DIFFICULT TO DO. WE DON'T WORK IT, YOU KNOW, 24 HOURS A DAY.

AND ONCE THEY MOVE IN, THEN IT BECOMES THAT WHOLE PROCESS OVER AGAIN.

WHAT'S THE ENFORCEMENT DETERRENCE METHOD CURRENTLY USED? SO YOU GUYS GO IN AND CLEAN IT UP. IS IT RELIANT MAINLY ON.

OKAY, WE'LL SEND A GUY OUT THERE EVERY THREE MONTHS OR SIX MONTHS AND A LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER NEARBY GOING CALLING YOU OR CALLING APD GOING, HEY, WE'RE HAVING THE SAME ISSUES. WHAT'S I BELIEVE SO I WILL, I WILL.

YES, PLEASE. A LITTLE OUT OF MY COMFORT ZONE, SIR.

GOOD MORNING, BRAD MCGARRY. SO BASICALLY HOW THAT RESPONDS TO YOUR QUESTION WOULD GO, IS A CITIZEN OR A BUSINESS OWNER WOULD CALL THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH OUR 911 OR THROUGH A REGULAR DISPATCH.

WE WOULD SEND PATROL OFFICERS OUT. AND IF THEY LOCATED INDIVIDUALS, THEY WOULD THEN ADVISE THEM THAT THEY'RE ON EITHER CITY PROPERTY, WHICH WE WOULD THEN TELL THEM THAT THEY CAN'T BE ON.

IF IT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY, IT'S A LITTLE MORE CUMBERSOME.

WE HAVE TO FIND THE PROPERTY OWNER, WHICH SOMETIMES IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE DEPENDING ON WHO THE OWNER IS, IF IT'S AN LLC. BUT ONCE THAT CONTACT IS MADE, WE CAN GET TRESPASS AFFIDAVITS THAT WE KEEP ON FILE AT THE PD THROUGH DISPATCH.

AND THEN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CONTACTED ARE THEN ADVISED THAT THEY ARE NOW TRESPASSING AND THEY CAN BE MOVED ALONG OR ARRESTED.

AND WORST CASE SCENARIO, ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL, YOU GET CALLED OUT, YOU SAY, HEY, WE'VE GOT NO TRESPASSING, YOU GOT TO MOVE ON. ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL, DO YOU SEE THEM TYPICALLY JUST MOVE TO ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THESE THREE AREAS OR SOME OTHER AREA THAT HASN'T BEEN CLEANED UP YET? YES. CURRENTLY WHAT WE SEE IS, IS WHAT I REFER TO AS KIND OF THE MERRY GO ROUND WE DISPLACE ONE AREA, THEY MOVED TO ANOTHER, WE DISPLACE THAT, AND EVENTUALLY THEY END UP BACK IN THE SAME LOCATION THAT THEY ORIGINALLY STARTED.

AND SO FROM FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT'S KIND OF A A SOLUTION OR WHAT ARE WE LACKING THAT THAT YOU SAY, HEY, WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT THIS IN ORDER TO KIND OF STOP THAT MERRY, MERRY GO ROUND EFFECT.

PERSONALLY, MY THOUGHTS ARE WE NEED MUCH MORE COLLABORATION BETWEEN OUR LOCAL NONPROFITS THAT WORK WITH THIS POPULATION WITH THE CITY'S INVOLVEMENT. BUT THAT'S MY PERSONAL AS A POLICE OFFICER, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US STEP IN A DIRECTION TO WHERE WE'RE NOT USING CRIMINAL PENAL LAW TO ATTACH TO THESE PEOPLE AND THIS POPULATION.

IT'S MORE OF A SOCIAL GAME RIGHT NOW. IT'S IT'S NOT IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

SO YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE COLLABORATION BETWEEN ALL OUR NONPROFITS BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM ARE DUPLICATING THE EXACT SAME WORK.

AND I THINK IF WE COLLABORATED MORE AS A CITY WITH THE NONPROFITS, MAYBE WE COULD SEE SOME OF THAT NOT BE DUPLICATED AND WE BECOME MORE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE WITH THAT. RIGHT NOW, WE'VE GOT 10 OR 15 DIFFERENT NONPROFITS IN THIS SECTOR WORKING THIS WORKING THIS SECTOR.

AND TO SOME EXTENT THEY'RE SILOED. DO YOU SEE A BENEFIT IN HAVING HAVING A DIRECTOR, ONE KIND OF COORDINATOR DIRECTOR THAT COORDINATES BETWEEN THE NONPROFITS IN THIS SECTOR AND ALSO APD TO KIND OF BE THE POINT OF CONTACT, BUT ALSO THE COORDINATION OF ALL THE RESOURCES.

DOES THAT BENEFIT YOU THINK THIS IS WHAT WE NEED? I THINK SOMEONE HAS TO KIND OF BE THE OVERSEER.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, AS I WOULD SAY, THAT'S KIND OF ABOVE MY PAY GRADE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMEONE THAT'S KIND OF GOT THAT 30 ZERO ZERO ZERO FOOT VIEW, THEN YOU LOSE THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE INDIVIDUALS.

AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY WHEN DEALING WITH THIS POPULATION.

BRAD, ON THAT, ON THE COORDINATOR, IF YOU HAVE ONE, DOES THAT GUARANTEE THAT ALL THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE GOING TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER? ABSOLUTELY NOT. MY MY WIFE AND I HAD THIS CONVERSATION LAST NIGHT AS I WAS KIND OF TALKING ABOUT THE PRESENTATION TODAY.

WE'VE WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS IN THE PAST WITH DIFFERENT NON-PROFITS AND KIND OF LIKE ANY OTHER ENTITY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THEIR FOCUS AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO SPEND THEIR TIME AND THEIR ENERGY.

I DO THINK MAYBE HAVING SOMEONE KIND OF COORDINATING THAT CAN MAYBE MASSAGE THAT INTO MORE COOPERATION.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. I KNOW THAT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

[02:35:01]

I'M WORKING WITH A GROUP INSIDE THE CITY CURRENTLY THAT IS TRYING TO WORK ON SOME PROBLEMS WITH HOMELESSNESS.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IS WE HAVE TO HAVE A BETTER SITUATION IN ABILENE THAN JUST THE SALVATION ARMY IS OUR ONLY ALTERNATIVE FOR PEOPLE TO GO, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, MR. REAGAN, YOU ASKED A MINUTE AGO, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF CHASE THESE PEOPLE AROUND FROM ENCAMPMENT TO ENCAMPMENT.

WELL, RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVE OTHER THAN THE SALVATION ARMY FOR THESE PEOPLE TO BE MOVED TO.

SO IT'S IT'S CHALLENGING AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO GO OUT TO AN ENCAMPMENT AND CONTACT INDIVIDUALS THAT NEED TO MOVE ON, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE THAT YOU CAN ASSIST THEM IN GETTING TO.

THERE'S ALL SORTS OF SERVICES AVAILABLE, BUT THERE'S NOT ADEQUATE TEMPORARY HOUSING LOCATED IN THE CITY FOR US AS LAW ENFORCEMENT OTHER THAN THE SALVATION ARMY. AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, IS THAT A LOT OF THIS POPULATION HAS KIND OF RUINED THEIR WELCOME WITH CERTAIN ORGANIZATIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE EITHER NON-COMPLIANT OR BECAUSE OF SOME TYPE OF DRUG OR ALCOHOL ABUSE.

THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED BACK AT THOSE LOCATIONS AS THE SALVATION ARMY.

SO THEN YOU GET INTO WHERE DO YOU PUT THESE PEOPLE, WHERE DO THEY GO IF THEY'RE MOVED AWAY FROM AN ENCAMPMENT THAT THEY'VE BEEN IN? SO THAT'S THE CHALLENGE THAT OUR INTERNAL GROUP IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON.

AND EVEN IF YOU HAD ANOTHER FACILITY, IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN THAT THESE SAME PROBLEMS ARE NOT GOING TO EXIST.

CORRECT. IT'S GOING TO KIND OF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PACK EARLIER WITH THE PET ADOPTION CENTER ALREADY BEING FULL AS SOON AS WE OPEN A SHELTER, IT'S GOING TO FILL UP AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A PERPETUAL PROBLEM.

I LIKE TO LOOK AT IT. I GUESS I'M AN OPTIMISTIC GUY, BUT I LIKE TO LOOK AT IT FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF I WOULD RATHER US TRY TO DO SOMETHING THAN TO JUST BACK AWAY AND KIND OF LET THE NONPROFITS DO WHAT THEY DO.

THAT'S UP TO Y'ALL. Y'ALL ARE THE DECISION MAKERS FOR THE CITY.

I JUST KNOW AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, I'M IN MY 34TH YEAR.

THIS HAS BEEN AN ONGOING PROBLEM. THE CITY. IT'S GROWING, AND THE PROBLEM IS CONTINUALLY GETTING MORE AND MORE EVIDENT AS WE GROW AND WE REACH INTO SOME OF THESE PLACES WHERE THESE ENCAMPMENTS ARE.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. WELL, AND WHAT I CONTINUALLY HEAR.

SO I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH, WITH THE HOMELESS SINCE REALLY 2019, 2018, 2019 WHEN WE WHEN WE STARTED WORKING IN WEST TEXAS.

AND SO THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE THERE'S NO ONE SOLUTION.

WHETHER IT'S HOUSING, WHETHER IT'S COORDINATION, WHETHER IT'S GETTING THEM DOCUMENTATION SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE HOUSING IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, WHETHER THEY CAN GET JOBS, YOU KNOW, IT'S MULTIPLE ISSUES.

AND SO I THINK WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FROM US TODAY IS ONE SOLUTION.

AND IT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE ALL THE ISSUES, BUT IT IS.

I THINK THE FIRST STEP IS WE'VE GOT A LOT OF NONPROFITS OUT THERE DOING GOOD WORK.

WE JUST DON'T HAVE A GOOD COORDINATION SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL A LITTLE SILOED AND THERE'S SOME REDUNDANCY AS WELL.

AND I THINK HAVING, YOU KNOW, FOR THE LONGEST TIME AS A CITY, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO SAY, HEY, NONPROFITS ARE IN ARE TAKING CARE OF IT. I DON'T THINK WE CAN WE CAN TAKE THAT REMOVED ROLE ANYMORE.

I THINK THE CITY NEEDS TO SAY, ALL RIGHT, THIS IS A CITY ISSUE AND WE NEED TO BE PART OF THAT SOLUTION.

NOW, WHAT THAT ROLE IS, I THINK, IS, YOU KNOW, IS IS FOR US TO KIND OF GIVE DIRECTION.

MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE WE DON'T NEED TO CREATE A STAFF POSITION FOR THIS.

THE NONPROFITS ARE DOING A GREAT JOB, BUT I THINK THEY NEED THE COORDINATION AND WITH A LITTLE BACKING FROM THE CITY.

AND SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, AND I'VE MET WITH JENNY GOOD FROM BETTY HARDWICK AND COURTNEY HORTON FROM HOPE HAVEN AND MICHELLE FROM CFA. AND IT WAS A GOOD WORKING GROUP ABOUT A MONTH OR TWO AGO.

AND THIS AND I THINK THEY PROPOSED IT LAST YEAR.

AND SO THIS IS, I THINK, A GOOD START TO THE SOLUTION, AT LEAST COORDINATION.

IT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS HOUSING.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS PANHANDLING. BUT I THINK THIS IS THE FIRST STEP THAT WE WE CAN REALISTICALLY TAKE THAT I THINK WE'LL SEE SOME, SOME TANGIBLE RESULTS. AND SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US FUNDING A DIRECTOR OF THE WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK.

AND IF WE FUND IT THROUGH CFA AND THEY IN TURN OR BETTY HARDWICK AND THEY IN TURN PAY PAY FOR THAT POSITION AT WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK THAT COORDINATES ALL OF THIS. BUT I THINK THIS IS THIS IS THE BASIC FIRST STEP.

[02:40:03]

AND THEN IN SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR, WE COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, NOW WE NEED TO ADDRESS HOUSING, OR NOW WE NEED TO DO THIS. THIS IS FIRST STEP.

AND WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS IS WITH THIS FUNDING COUNCIL, WE GET AND STAFF WE GET A BASICALLY A PAID RESEARCHER THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SAY, HEY, WE WANT QUARTERLY.

WE WANT TWICE A YEAR FOR THEM TO COME TO US AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.

WE'RE SEEING THESE ARE THE ISSUES. THIS IS THE INCREASE, DECREASE IN HOMELESSNESS.

AND THESE ARE THE PROPOSED SOLUTIONS. THESE ARE WHAT THESE CITIES ARE DOING.

WE WANT TO DO ONE, TWO AND THREE. HERE ARE THE PROS AND CONS.

AND SO WE GET OUR OWN FEEDBACK AND PROPOSALS FOR SOLUTIONS RATHER THAN US RIGHT NOW GETTING THE COMPLAINTS AS COUNCIL MEMBERS AND GOING WELL, NON-PROFITS GO FIX THAT. AND SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD WAY THAT WE CAN STEP IN, PROVIDE SOME SOLUTION, PROVIDE AN OVERARCHING COORDINATION AND SEE WHERE THIS TAKES US.

COUNCIL. MORE INPUT PLEASE. ANYONE? I CERTAINLY SUPPORT PARTICIPATING IN A MORE COORDINATED EFFORT. I'M NOT SURE, GIVEN THAT WE'VE ALREADY LIMITED OUR FUNDING FOR NUMEROUS NONPROFITS BECAUSE OF ECONOMIC CONDITIONS.

I'M NOT SURE THAT I'M EXCITED ABOUT REINSTATING THAT FOR THIS NEW POSITION IS WHETHER WE'RE GIVING THE MONEY TO A NONPROFIT TO TO PAY AND HAVE ON THEIR STAFF, OR WHETHER WE ADD THEM TO THE CITY STAFF.

I'M NOT SURE I SEE THE THE BANG FOR THE BUCK THERE, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAD CUT ALL THE OTHER NONPROFIT FUNDING.

SO I THINK WHERE I LAND ON THIS IS I MEAN, NOT TO THROW GARY UNDER THE BUS HERE, BUT MAYBE A VOLUNTOLD LIAISON FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO PARTICIPATE.

SEE, THAT'S WHAT I DID NOT COUNT ON, WAS IT? YEAH.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STAND UP AND OFFER IDEAS.

IT BECOMES YOUR JOB. SO I WILL I WILL SAY THAT IN OUR INTERNAL CITY COMMITTEE THAT WE'RE KICKING SOME IDEAS AROUND. AND I KNOW THAT COURTNEY AND AND JENNY I'VE TALKED TO THEM A LOT ABOUT THIS.

COURTNEY HAS ACTUALLY WORKED WITH A GROUP CALLED COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS.

THERE'S A POSSIBILITY. OF COURSE, I DON'T KNOW HOW FUNDING IS GOING WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GRANT TYPE FUNDS. BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT KIND OF STUFF, THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT OUR COMMITTEE HAS LOOKED INTO ON A PROCESS THAT WOULD BASICALLY ROADMAP ENCAMPMENT TO HOUSING FOR SOME OF THESE IN OUR POPULATION THAT WANT SERVICES AND JUST CAN'T GET THEM FOR WHATEVER THE REASON.

AND PART OF THAT GRANT MONEY WOULD FACILITATE SOME OF THIS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY AS FAR AS A POSITION THAT WOULD KIND OF OVERSEE EVERYTHING.

AND IF IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE, I'M SURE SHE'D BE WILLING TO COME UP AND KIND OF TALK TO YOU MORE ABOUT THAT, AND I'LL STEP ASIDE. NOW, HOLD ON, BRAD, I'VE GOT A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS.

OKAY. OF SO WE REALLY DON'T WE DON'T HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF NUMBER OF OF EVEN HOW MANY, WHAT WE CALL OUR HOMELESS POPULATION WOULD TAKE HOUSING EVEN IF IT WAS OFFERED, RIGHT? I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF THEM THAT ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT.

I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER. I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER TO COURTNEY TO ANSWER THAT.

SHE WOULD PROBABLY BE ABLE TO PUT IT OUT THERE.

OFF THE TOP OF HER HEAD, SHE KNOWS A LOT MORE ABOUT THE ACTUAL NUMBERS THAN WHAT I DO.

OKAY. AND I WANT EVERYONE TO ALSO CONSIDER THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC PROPERTY AND PRIVATE PROPERTY.

YES. TWO DIFFERENT BIG DIFFERENCE IN WHAT WE DO.

AND AND I WANT US TO CONTINUE OUR EFFORTS ON PUBLIC PROPERTY, ON WHAT WE'RE DOING.

AND I KNOW IT'S THAT TRIANGLE, THAT CIRCLE. AND IT MAY NOT BE THE ANSWER, BUT I WANT TO SEE US CONTINUE THOSE EFFORTS.

PEOPLE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, IF THEY HAVE AN ISSUE, THEY NEED TO CALL THE POLICE.

BUT IF THEY'RE IF THEY'RE GOING TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE THERE ON THEIR PROPERTIES, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT.

THAT IS CORRECT. THANK YOU. I WANT TO ADDRESS THAT.

BRAD, THANK YOU SO MUCH. ON THE PUBLIC PROPERTY PORTION OF IT.

SORRY, BRAD. CAN I ASK A QUESTION THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO DOVETAIL INTO WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO SAY.

YEP. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLASH ME THE RED SIGN.

CAN WE PUT ONE AT LYNN'S HOUSE? SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE A QUICK COMMENT, AND THEN, SURE, I'LL ASK THE QUESTION.

I THINK HE'LL GO INTO WHERE YOU'RE GOING. I STARTED DEALING WITH THIS PROBLEM IN 1998, RIGHT WHEN I JOINED THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THIS IS AN AGE OLD DISCUSSION. I THINK JUST FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES.

[02:45:01]

ROBERT, IF YOU WOULD TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF MISPERCEPTIONS ABOUT WHAT LEGAL AUTHORITY WE ACTUALLY HAVE WITH REGARDS TO THE HOMELESS POPULATION.

THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES RECENTLY, LIKE THE CAMPING AND THE PUBLIC PARKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT TALK ABOUT WHERE THE LIMITS ARE, WHAT WE CAN DO AS A CITY ORGANIZATION TO DEAL WITH THIS.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND IT DOES EXACTLY KIND OF BLEED INTO WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

AND SO WE'RE REALLY LIMITED TO ENFORCING A PUBLIC CAMPING BAN THAT WAS PASSED BY THE STATE OF TEXAS IN LARGE RESPONSE TO THE HOMELESS POPULATION THAT WAS BEING OBSERVED IN AUSTIN, AND GOVERNOR ABBOTT WORKED WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO ADOPT THE STATEWIDE CAMPING BAN.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT THIS SIGN THAT I SHOWED AND FLASHED AT YOU, THAT THAT IS WHAT THAT'S REFERENCING.

AND SO IT'S NOT A CRIME TO BE HOMELESS. SOMETIMES APD HAS TO RESORT TO THE CRIMINAL STATUTE TO DEAL WITH A PARTICULAR THE ACTIONS OF A HOMELESS INDIVIDUAL. BUT THERE ARE HOMELESS PEOPLE THAT CHOOSE TO LIVE THAT LIFESTYLE AND ARE GOOD CITIZENS. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A HOUSE.

YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO BE UNHOUSED. THEY HAVE AN AMERICA.

THEY HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE THAT DECISION, AND IT'S NOT ILLEGAL TO DO SO.

WHERE WE ARE FOCUSING OUR CLEANUP EFFORTS, FOR THE MOST PART, IS WHERE WE HAVE THAT INTERFACE BETWEEN PUBLIC PROPERTY AND PUBLIC AND PUBLIC CAMPING. AND SO WE ARE WORKING RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS A PRIVATE ISSUE, GRUMPS. THE HAMBURGER JOINT.

RIGHT? THERE'S A ENCAMPMENT THAT'S NOT FAR FROM THEIR PLACE OF BUSINESS THAT HAS CAUSED PROBLEMS. AND THE OWNER HAS SPENT THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS CLEANING THAT UP BECAUSE IT'S UNSIGHTLY.

AND IT. FRANKLY IF YOU HAVE HUMAN WASTE IN THE CREEK THAT GETS TO THE WATER SUPPLY, AND IT'S A HEALTH ISSUE.

AND SO WE NEED TO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES.

HE TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF TO CLEAN IT UP. AND IT'S ALREADY DIRTY AGAIN.

I MEAN, IT'S ALREADY IT'S ALREADY BEING USED AS AN ENCAMPMENT AGAIN.

AND SO WE'RE WORKING WITH HIM AND ALSO THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA TO DEED THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION TO THE CITY OF ABILENE SO WE CAN ENFORCE A PUBLIC AND PUBLIC CAMPING BAN. THAT'S A CONVERSATION WE JUST STARTED. THIS WILL BE COMING TO COUNCIL LATER DATE.

Y'ALL COULD SAY WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT, AND THAT WOULD STOP THE PROCESS. BUT WHERE WE HAVE BUSINESSES THAT ARE CONTEMPLATING LEAVING THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET A HANDLE ON THIS, IT'S IMPACTING THEIR CUSTOMER BASE.

WE'RE TRYING TO FIND WAYS WHERE WE CAN HELP ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE LAW.

AND SO WHILE WE'RE NOT CRIMINALIZING HOMELESSNESS, WE ARE SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T CAMP ON PUBLIC PROPERTY BECAUSE THAT'S A STATEWIDE IT'S A STATEWIDE REQUIREMENT. I DO THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THE NONPROFIT COMMUNITY IN A LARGER EFFORT, BUT GARY'S 100% CORRECT IN SAYING THAT THEY EACH HAVE THEIR OWN MISSION, THAT THEY WORK, THEY WORK TOWARDS.

SO IF THIS WAS COUNCIL'S DESIRE TO POTENTIALLY FUND SOMETHING, MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION IS I THINK THERE'S A WAY WE NEED TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CHURCH COMMUNITIES AND NONPROFIT COMMUNITIES AND THE FOUNDATIONS BEFORE WE PUT A DOLLAR THERE.

BUT IF THE COUNCIL'S INTENTION IS TO DO THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME MECHANISM WHEREBY THE NONPROFITS ARE REQUIRED TO WORK TOGETHER SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW NECESSARILY HOW THAT COULD BE STRUCTURED OR HOW THAT MIGHT BE DONE.

BUT IF YOU HAVE A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING, THIS IS HOW WE DO IT, AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER GROUP THAT SAYS, NO, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING, YOU CAN WORK AT CROSS-PURPOSES WITH ONE ANOTHER.

I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN SOLVING THIS, THIS PROBLEM OR THIS, THIS SITUATION, IT'S NOT REALLY A PROBLEM. IT'S JUST A CONDITION. IT'S JUST A REALITY OF LIFE IN ABILENE, TEXAS WORK VERY, VERY HARD TO ADDRESS THE HUMANITY NEEDS OF AN INCREDIBLE, IMPORTANT PART OF OUR POPULATION.

AND THEY DO SO IN THE WAY THAT THEY THINK IS BEST.

AND I'VE GOT TO RESPECT THAT. I THINK FROM A GOVERNMENT STANDPOINT, SOME OF OUR CONCERNS ARE DIFFERENT FROM SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS AS WELL.

AND SO THERE NEEDS TO BE A RECOGNITION THAT WE'RE ALL TRYING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM, BUT WE ARE COMING AT IT FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES BECAUSE OUR OUTCOMES MIGHT BE DIFFERENT. AND THAT'S OKAY. AND WHERE OUR WHERE OUR OUTCOMES ALIGN.

THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES CERTAINLY TO WORK TOGETHER. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SIR? IT DOES WITH WITH REGARDS TO THE CONCEPT OF A COORDINATOR AND BLAZE, MAYBE YOU WANT TO SPEAK MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE GOT IN MIND, BUT WHEN I HEAR THE WORD COORDINATOR, I THINK OF SOMEBODY THAT'S TRACKING SERVICES, TRACKING PEOPLE, ALL THAT. AND TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, ALL THE FOOD BANKS DO IT.

SERVICES ARE TRACKED THROUGH TWO, ONE ONE. MY CHURCH HAS A FOOD PANTRY.

WE TRACK EVERYBODY. THEY CAN SEE WHO ACCESS IS, WHAT SERVICES AROUND TOWN WITHIN THAT PARTICULAR SERVICE, THE FOOD PANTRY SERVICE AROUND TOWN. SO IT'S VERY EASY TO TRACK WHO'S GOING WHERE AND WHEN TO AVOID SOMEONE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ANY ONE PARTICULAR ENTITY.

[02:50:02]

SO THAT'S THAT'S ALREADY OUT THERE. SO OTHER THAN WHAT I'VE HEARD, BEING SOMEONE THAT CAN REPORT BACK TO US AND PROVIDE DATA, WHAT WHAT ELSE WOULD THIS PERSON DO? I THINK THE POSITION, I SHOULD SAY THE PROPOSAL WAS SENT TO COUNCIL.

WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK HAD DRAFTED A PROPOSAL TO 4 OR 5 DIFFERENT PAGES.

IT WAS SENT TO COUNCIL AT THE REQUEST OF COUNCIL MEMBER REAGAN AGAIN.

IT WAS WHEN IT WAS OFFICIAL OR FIRST KIND OF THE FLAG WAS FLOWN UP SAYING, HEY, IS THERE INTEREST HERE? IT WAS DURING THE COUNCIL RETREAT AND THE KIND OF THE CORRESPONDENCE, THE FEEDBACK I GOT BACK WAS, HEY, WE'RE CUTTING ALL THESE OTHER NONPROFITS. WE CAN'T TURN AROUND AND FUND ONE. AND I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER REAGAN HAS SEEN THE NEED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.

SO WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE.

PART OF THIS IS A CASE MANAGER. IT'S GOING TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT IF IT'S IF IF SOMEONE CAN BE HOUSED, BUT THERE'S NOT DUE ATTENTION TO THEIR MENTAL HEALTH NEEDS AND THEN THOSE AREN'T BEING ADDRESSED, OR THEY ARE BEING ADDRESSED FOR A SHORT TIME AND THEY, THEY SLIDE BACK INTO A STATE OF UNHOUSED.

BECAUSE OF THAT, THERE COULD BE OTHER TYPES OF COUNSELING AND OTHER TYPES OF TREATMENT OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE. THIS CASE MANAGER POSITION CAN HELP DO THAT. AND AGAIN, COURTNEY IS DEFINITELY THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

AND SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU GUYS TO INVITE HER UP HERE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION IN JUST A MINUTE. BUT EVEN THOUGH THESE OTHER NONPROFITS, TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILMEMBER BEARD, IS THAT THEY ARE TRACKING THIS INFORMATION, AND 211 ALSO HELPS TRACK THIS INFORMATION.

DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY WHO'S MINING ALL THIS DATA AND TRYING TO MAKE ANALYSIS BASED DECISIONS OFF OF MEETING A POPULATION'S NEEDS? I DON'T KNOW IF WE DO.

AND SO A COORDINATOR TYPE POSITION COULD CERTAINLY DO THAT IN A WAY THAT THE NONPROFITS, THEY SEE THE VALUE IN IT, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE TO THEY'RE DOING THEIR MISSION. AND THEIR MISSION IS NOT NECESSARILY TO WORK TOGETHER ALL THE TIME, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THOSE MISSIONS ARE ALMOST AT A CROSS PURPOSE IN SOME WAYS.

SO THERE COULD BE VALUE THERE. MY MY ONLY HESITATION IN THIS IS THAT I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A CONVERSATION WITH THE NON-PROFITS, WITH THE CHURCH COMMUNITY, WITH THE THE BIG HEARTED DONORS IN OUR COMMUNITY ABOUT HOW BEST IS THIS FUNDED? BECAUSE WE HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY. AND PUBLIC MONEY, I THINK, CAN BE BROUGHT TO BEAR TO HELP RESOLVE THE PROJECT.

BUT WHERE IS IT BEST BROUGHT BROUGHT, BROUGHT TO BEAR IS THE QUESTION.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CONVERSATION HAS BEEN FULLY VETTED YET.

BECAUSE THE QUESTION THEN IS, IS OKAY, YOU MINE ALL THE DATA AND YOU PRODUCE DATA AND YOU'RE CREATING THE CASE MANAGEMENT MODEL OF MANAGING SOMEONE THAT'S HOMELESS.

WHAT DO YOU DO THEN? YOU KNOW, AND THEN THAT'S A JUST A GENERAL QUESTION.

YOU'VE GOT ALL THE INFORMATION. BUT THEN WHAT? YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE IN PLACE BEFORE A COORDINATOR AND TO MY MIND WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE CASE MANAGEMENT IN THE WORLD IN THE DATA MINING, BUT IF THERE'S NO PLACE TO PUT THAT PERSON WHERE THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE, AND I WELCOME ANY CONVERSATION THAT WE WANT TO HAVE.

I THINK JENNY AND COURTNEY CAN REALLY HELP ADDRESS SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS FOR MYSELF.

YEAH, I'LL GO TOGETHER. WHAT? WE BOTH GO TOGETHER? SURE, SURE. BRETT. I'M SORRY. GOOD MORNING. COUNCILMAN MAYOR.

I'M JENNY GUDE, I'M THE CEO OF BETTY HARDWICK CENTER, AND I'M CURRENTLY THE CHAIR FOR WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK.

COURTNEY AND I WORK CLOSELY TOGETHER AND HAVE FOR SEVERAL YEARS ON THESE ISSUES.

AND I HAD SOME COMMENTS PREPARED IN YOUR DISCUSSION HAS, YOU KNOW, GONE DEEP INTO SOME OF THEM ALREADY.

AND SO I WANT TO HIT ON A FEW POINTS, BUT I WANT TO ALLOW SOME TIME TO FOR US TO RESPOND TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE BEEN ASKING.

SO WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK IS A COALITION OF AGENCIES THAT ARE SERVING OUR HOMELESS NEIGHBORS.

WE WORK TOGETHER TO FULFILL A VARIETY OF TASKS.

IT'S TRUE. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN MISSION, BUT SOME OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IS FULFILLING THE NECESSARY OBLIGATIONS FOR ABILENE TO BRING IN OVER ABOUT WHAT'S TODAY, ABOUT $1 MILLION IN FEDERAL FUNDING TO HOUSE HOMELESS NEIGHBORS.

WE HAVE TO DO THAT IN ORDER TO GET THOSE DOLLARS.

SO TODAY YOU'VE HEARD YOU'VE SEEN THE PRESENTATION ABOUT AN ENCAMPMENT OUTREACH WHEN THAT IS HAPPENING AND THE CITY IS PREPARING TO GO DO THE CLEAN OUT THEY CONTACT PRIMARILY FOR THE PURPOSE OF ASKING SOME OF OUR STAFF TO GO OUT AND ENGAGE WITH THOSE NEIGHBORS THAT ARE LIVING IN THE ENCAMPMENTS, LET THEM KNOW IT'S CLOSING, OFFER THEM ACCESS TO SOME SERVICES, AND SOME MANY OF THEM ARE ALREADY KNOWN TO US AT THE TIME.

BUT SOMETIMES THERE ARE PEOPLE WE HAVE NOT YET MET.

AND SO THIS. CAN I STOP YOU THERE? SOMETHING'S HAPPENING WITH THE VIDEO.

IT'S LIKE IT JUST HAS US WALKING IN AND THE INTERPRETER IS GONE.

OH. SHE'S HERE. IT'S ON THIS ONE. OKAY. ARE YOU STILL HERE?

[02:55:04]

OKAY. GO AHEAD. SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. YEAH. YOU DID HEAR ABOUT.

OFTEN WHEN THE CITY IS PRIORITIZING WHERE TO GO CLEAN OUT AN ENCAMPMENT, IT'S OFTEN DRIVEN BY COMPLAINTS OR SAFETY CONCERN.

AND THEY DO THAT IN THAT ORDER AND AT A PACE THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN SOMETIMES THE WAY WE ARE HOUSING PEOPLE.

WE HOUSE PEOPLE BASED UPON THE COORDINATED ENTRY PROCESS, WHICH PRIORITIZES PEOPLE BY VULNERABILITY.

THIS IS REALLY KIND OF A WHOLE OTHER. WE COULD SPEND A REALLY LONG TIME STEPPING THROUGH THE SYSTEM THAT EXISTS FOR THIS.

THERE'S A STANDARDIZED ASSESSMENT THAT DETERMINES THE PEOPLE ON THE STREET.

WHAT ARE THEIR NEEDS? HOW SERIOUS ARE THEY? WHO NEEDS TO BE HOUSED FIRST? AND THAT'S THE ORDER THAT WE GO IN TO HOUSE PEOPLE.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO TELL YOU TODAY THAT WE CAN ELIMINATE UNSHELTERED NEIGHBORS AND ENCAMPMENTS ALTOGETHER, BUT WE DO BELIEVE THAT WE CAN DO BETTER IF WE WORK TOGETHER WITH OUR SHARED RESOURCES.

ABILENES LOCAL COALITION IS NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED AS A LEADER.

AS A RESULT, WE'VE BEEN THE RECIPIENT OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN PRIVATE GRANTS TO SUPPORT OUR WORK.

ONE OF THOSE WAS A GRANT THAT FUNDED A COORDINATOR POSITION.

THAT POSITION ENDED IN 2024, AND SOME OF THIS IS SPELLED OUT IN THE PROPOSAL.

I THINK IT GOT PUT IN YOUR PACKET AGAIN LATE THIS WEEK, AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT MORE LATER.

BUT THAT PROPOSAL LAYS OUT THIS REQUEST FOR SOME PARTNERSHIP IN TERMS OF HIRING A DIRECTOR.

I WOULDN'T CALL HIM A COORDINATOR. WE WANT A DIRECTOR AND A HOUSING NAVIGATOR.

AND WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT WHAT THOSE TWO PEOPLE DO.

BUT A LOT OF IT IS SOME OF THE VERY THINGS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

LOOKING AT THIS FROM A SYSTEM PERSPECTIVE, THERE IS A TON OF DATA.

WE USE A WHOLE DIFFERENT SYSTEM THAN 211. IT'S CALLED HMIS.

WE'RE REQUIRED TO USE IT BY THE STATE OF TEXAS BECAUSE WE GET HEAD MONEY IN OUR COMMUNITY.

SO WE KNOW WHEN SOMEONE COMES TO BETTY HARDWICK CENTER AND THEY'RE ASSESSED IF THEY'VE BEEN AT THE SALVATION ARMY, HOW MANY TIMES, HOW MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS HAVE THEY BEEN HOUSED BEFORE? WE KNOW ALL OF THIS. AND AND THAT IS VERY HELPFUL INFORMATION TO KNOW.

BUT ASIDE FROM THE THE AGENCIES THAT YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT PROVIDE BASIC NEEDS.

ABILENE HAS SEEN SUBSTANTIAL GROWTH IN HOUSING PROGRAMS OVER THE LAST YEAR.

LAST SUMMER, THE COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS WAS AWARDED A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR TO CREATE A NEW RAPID REHOUSING PROGRAM THAT'S HUD MONEY, FEDERAL DOLLARS, AND IT SUPPORTS 28 NEW HOUSEHOLDS EACH YEAR.

BETTY HARDWICK CENTER IS GOING TO ADD 19 MORE SLOTS FOR MONEY THAT WE APPLIED TO EXPAND OUR HOUSING PROGRAMS THIS SUMMER.

THAT'S ADDED CAPACITY ON TOP OF THE ALREADY AVAILABLE MONEY TO PAY FOR HOUSING THAT EXISTS IN THE OTHER HUD PROGRAMS AND IN THE VETERANS PROGRAMS THAT EXIST IN OUR COMMUNITY.

OF COURSE, SALVATION ARMY, NOAA, PROJECT, BCFS ALL HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY, TOO, IN EMERGENCY SHELTER OR A PLACE TO SLEEP TONIGHT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE SITUATIONS THAT HAVE PLACED THEM IN A SITUATION OF VULNERABILITY.

THE HOUSING AUTHORITY WORKS WITH US ON VOUCHERS FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED LONGER TERM SUPPORT THAT ARE NOT GOING TO LIKELY BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN ON THEIR OWN, AND THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY REAL REASONS WHY THAT HAPPENS.

ALL OF THIS EFFORT TAKES PLACE EVERY DAY OVER THE LAST 12 MONTHS.

WTA PARTNERS HAVE MOVED 267 PEOPLE FROM HOMELESSNESS INTO HOUSING.

OF THOSE PEOPLE, ONLY ABOUT 9% HAD BEEN HOUSED BEFORE.

THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD SUCCESS RATE IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE POPULATION THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH.

SO I'M LETTING YOU KNOW THAT BECAUSE I THINK THIS WORKS.

THIS STUFF WORKS. IT IS COMPLICATED. THERE'S A THERE'S A LOT OF COMPLEXITY.

BRAD MENTIONED A GRANT. IT'S A PRIVATE GRANT THAT WE APPLIED FOR WITH SUPPORT FROM THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE AND CHIEF RATE THAT WOULD PROVIDE SOME FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR TWO YEARS TO HELP US WORK ON MOVING PEOPLE DIRECTLY FROM ENCAMPMENTS INTO HOUSING.

IT'S KIND OF LED BY A ORGANIZATION CALLED CLUTCH.

THEY'RE KIND OF A BEST PRACTICE ORGANIZATION. THEY'VE DONE THIS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES, ONE INCLUDING OKLAHOMA CITY, WHICH IS SIMILAR IN SIZE IN TERMS OF THE ENCAMPMENT NUMBERS.

IT WOULD HELP US BE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS WE WOULD GO TO AN ENCAMPMENT TOGETHER IN ADVANCE OF A CLEANOUT ABOUT SIX WEEKS IN ADVANCE, IN FACT, AND TALK TO FOLKS ABOUT THE SERVICES AVAILABLE, IDENTIFY THEM BY NAME, CONNECT THEM TO SERVICES, WORK WITH THEM THROUGH THAT SIX WEEKS PERIOD. IF THEY NEED ID, A CASE MANAGER, ALL THE THINGS THEY NEED TO TARGET HOUSING.

THEN THE ENCAMPMENT CLOSES. SIGNS GO UP, FENCING ALL THE THINGS, AND THEN ONCE WE'RE DONE THERE, WE GET READY TO MOVE TO THE NEXT ONE. THE HOUSING COMES FROM THE PROGRAMS THAT ALREADY EXIST IN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, THE HUD PROGRAMS AND THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE OPERATED FOR VETERANS.

ALL OF IT WOULD GO AT A SLOWER PACE, THOUGH IT'S PROBABLY IMPORTANT TO SAY THAT IT COULDN'T BE DRIVEN BY, HEY, WE GOT A COMPLAINT TODAY. WE NEED TO RUN OUT THERE AND CLOSE THAT ENCAMPMENT.

[03:00:03]

IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME TO DO THAT AND DO IT IN A COORDINATED FASHION.

ALL OF THIS TO SAY, WE DO BELIEVE THAT WE CAN ACHIEVE MORE WORKING TOGETHER.

THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TO SHARE THESE THOUGHTS WITH YOU. LET ME LET ME SEE WHAT QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. AND MAYBE COURTNEY WILL ADD SOME THINGS YOU MENTIONED ABOUT 200. YOU SAID 297 267 THAT YOU MOVED INTO HOUSING THIS LAST 12 MONTHS.

LAST 12 MONTHS. HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE STILL IN THAT HOUSE? YOU SAID 9% HAD NEVER BEEN. BUT HOW MANY OF THOSE FOLKS ARE STILL IN THAT HOUSING? THAT IS, THE 9% MEANS THE THE 9% HAD BEEN HOMELESS BEFORE AND HOUSED.

SO 90% OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE STILL MAINTAINING AND WEREN'T HOMELESS BEFORE.

SO THEY WEREN'T. WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT. IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE NOT HELPING THE SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER. THERE'S THERE'S A NEW THERE'S NEW PEOPLE ALL THE TIME THAT WE NEED OF THAT. BUT 90% OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE STILL IN THE HOUSING THAT YOU PUT THEM IN.

SO FOR THE DATA THAT WE ARE PRESENTED, WE HAVE TO WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO THAT FROM THE BALANCE OF STATE, WHICH IS TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK. THE DATA FOR A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME MEANS THEY HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED PERMANENT HOUSING FOR 24 MONTHS POST THEIR EXPERIENCE, THEIR EXIT FROM THE SYSTEM. AND SO WE CANNOT CLAIM NUMBERS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE STAYING HOUSE BECAUSE WE ARE IN THEIR LIVES THAT 24 MONTHS POST.

SO WHAT JENNY IS SAYING IS 9%, ONLY 9% OF THIS.

AND WE'VE BEEN CAPTURING THIS DATA SINCE 2017.

AND SO NOT ONLY 9% IN THE PAST YEAR ARE RETURNED FROM HOMELESSNESS, MEANING THAT WE MIGHT HAVE HOUSED THEM BEFORE, OR MAYBE THEY CAME IN ON AND GOT AN ASSESSMENT DONE.

AND MAYBE THEY WENT TO JAIL AND THEY CAME BACK OUT AND THEY ENTERED BACK INTO HOMELESSNESS.

BUT THOSE COMPARED NATIONALLY ARE LOW NUMBERS AND IN SUCCESS RATES OF THIS COORDINATED EFFORT.

THANK YOU. COURTNEY, YOU'RE THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF HOPE HAVEN.

YES. YEAH, I HAVE QUESTIONS, BUT I WANT TO I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS, SO I WANT TO GIVE YOU GUYS I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE SOME MORE I DON'T KNOW MORE DETAIL TO WHAT WHAT JENNY HAS STATED.

SO SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS BEFORE ABOUT THE COORDINATOR AND WHATNOT, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THE ENCAMPMENTS AND THE COORDINATOR, THE COORDINATOR OR DIRECTOR IS WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR ARE KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS HERE.

BUT THE LOCAL HOMELESS COALITION, WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK, HAS BEEN ACTIVE SINCE 2000.

SO THIS YEAR THIS WORK HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 25 YEARS.

IN THE SENSE HAVING A DEDICATED COORDINATOR, WHICH I DID HOLD THAT POSITION, I HELD IT WHEN IT WAS A GRANT POSITION AT THE UNITED WAY.

I USED IT WHEN I WAS GOING TO GET MY MASTER'S.

AND THEN WHEN I CAME OUT, IT REALLY EXPLODED INTO THIS FULL TIME POSITION.

SOMETHING THAT A NONPROFIT HELPS SUPPORT TO CONTINUE ON THE WORK.

WE ARE ACTIVELY WORKING TOGETHER. I WOULD PUSH BACK ON THE WORDING OF THAT.

WE'RE IN SILOS AS NONPROFITS. THERE'S 25 STAKEHOLDERS THAT ARE ALL THE BIG KIDS IN TOWN, YOU KNOW, WITH HOMELESS SERVICES, BUT ALSO TO WITH THE SUPPORTING OF BASIC NEEDS, SERVICES THAT ARE ALL HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME THAT WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN ACTIVE SOLUTIONS FOR ALL WORKING TOGETHER THROUGH THE COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM.

THIS DATA THAT WE TALK ABOUT, IT'S A REQUIREMENT.

THE HOMELESS MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEM. SO WE CAN TRACK ANYONE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.

OF 215 OF THE 254 COUNTIES, WE ARE THE SECOND LARGEST CONTINUUM OF CARE COMPARED TO ALASKA.

SO WHEN JENNY TALKS ABOUT THE CONTINUUM, THE HUD FUNDED PROGRAMS, ABILENE IN ITSELF IS GETTING $1 MILLION TO OUR COMMUNITY FOR PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING SOLUTIONS. WE WERE AT RISK OF LOSING THAT WITHOUT THIS COORDINATED SYSTEM.

SO IT'S SUPER IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP THIS COORDINATED SYSTEM GOING AT ALL THE TIME, BECAUSE LOSING PERMANENT OR LOSING FEDERAL FUNDING FOR HOUSING WOULD BE, WOULD BE A DETRIMENT TO OUR COMMUNITY. COURTNEY OR JENNY? JUST FOR COUNCIL'S SAKE, CAN YOU ADDRESS WHY THE CITY SHOULD BE INVOLVED AT THIS POINT, WHY IT'S NEEDED OR NECESSARY? AND THEN TWO, TO KIND OF ADDRESS THE POINT I THINK ROBERT HANNAH BROUGHT UP.

IF THE CITY IS INVOLVED, IT NEEDS TO HAVE TEETH AND TO IN SOME MECHANISM, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE.

FORCE MAY BE TOO STRONG OF A WORD, BUT FORCE THE NONPROFITS TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER.

ONE WHY DO WE WHY SHOULD THE CITY BE INVOLVED? AND TWO, IF SO, WHAT TEETH, IN A PRACTICAL TERMS, ARE THERE? SO I THINK THOSE ARE VERY GOOD QUESTIONS AND REASONS FOR THE CITY TO BE INVOLVED MIGHT INCLUDE.

I DO THINK WE CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS THROUGH COLLABORATION.

AND YOU'VE SEEN THAT AT WORK, RIGHT. LIKE THIS IS AS COURTNEY SAID, THE COALITION'S BEEN WORKING FOR ABOUT 2000 SINCE ABOUT 2002 OFFICIALLY.

HOWEVER, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LEARNED DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME WHERE WE HAD A DEDICATED COORDINATOR IS THAT IN ORDER TO DO THIS STUFF? THE MOVING FORWARD STUFF, NOT JUST THE KEEPING OUR FINGERS ON THE PULSE OF THINGS AND DEALING WITH THE EMERGENCIES TODAY,

[03:05:04]

BUT IF WE WANT TO BE PRODUCTIVE AND PROACTIVE AND MOVE FORWARD, YOU NEED SOMEBODY WHO CAN DO THIS FULL TIME.

IT'S IT IS ABOUT KNOWING THE DATA. IT IS ABOUT EDUCATING THE PEOPLE IN THE NONPROFITS ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST WHAT WE DO IN ABILENE, BECAUSE THIS THERE IS NO AGENCY AT THE STATE OR FEDERAL LEVEL THAT'S REAL INTERESTED IN GROWING EMERGENCY SHELTERS FOR ALL THE HOMELESS PEOPLE IN OUR STATE OF TEXAS. AND SO THE THE REALITY OF IT IS, IS THAT YOU HAVE TO BECOME VERY GOOD AT WHEN PEOPLE BECOME HOMELESSNESS HOMELESS.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO QUICKLY TO MOVE THEM BACK INTO SERVICES? BUT YOU CAN ACCESS FUNDING FROM OTHER SOURCES FOR THINGS LIKE HOUSING SOLUTIONS, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH HUD MONEY RIGHT NOW.

BUT YOU NEED PEOPLE WHO KNOW ABOUT THAT. AND IT ISN'T OKAY TO HAVE A ONE PERSON AT ONE NONPROFIT WHO'S REALLY GOOD AT THAT, WHO'S GOING TO RETIRE AND GO AWAY. AND THEN YOU HAVEN'T BUILT UP THIS EXPERTISE IN YOUR COMMUNITY, AND WE ARE LACKING IN THAT REGARD. MOST OF THE STUFF THAT'S HAPPENING TODAY HAS BEEN SELF-TAUGHT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S A GOOD THING. THAT CAN BE A GOOD WAY TO LEARN, BUT IT ISN'T VERY PRODUCTIVE.

SO THE DATA THAT EXIST WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL FOR YOU TO KNOW ON A REGULAR BASIS.

AND A DIRECTOR COULD DO THAT. THEY WOULD BE, IF I BELIEVE, IF FUNDED BY THE CITY OR PARTIALLY BY THE CITY TO AN ORGANIZATION.

THEY THEY DO WORK FOR YOU, THEY WORK FOR YOU AND THEY WORK FOR US, AND THEY WORK FOR ALL THE CITIZENS IN ABILENE, TOO, WHO HAVE THESE CONCERNS. THE NAVIGATOR POSITION, WHICH IS INCLUDED IN THE PROPOSAL, IS INCLUDED BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS TODAY SOMETIMES IS PEOPLE WHO ARE VULNERABLE GET A VOUCHER FROM THE HOUSING AUTHORITY, AND BY LAW, THEY CAN'T GO AND HELP THOSE PEOPLE SEARCH THROUGH ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY FOR SOMEONE WHO WILL TAKE THE HUD HEAD VOUCHER AND NAVIGATE NEGOTIATE WITH THE LANDLORD.

IF YOU WOULD DO THIS TO YOUR PROPERTY. IT COULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR A HUD VOUCHER.

A NAVIGATOR CAN DO THAT. MOST PROGRAMS THAT ARE FUNDED FOR HOUSING DON'T REALLY COME WITH THE MONEY TO DO THAT.

AND SO IN THE PACKET THAT YOU RECEIVE FROM MICHELLE, THERE'S A THERE'S SOME EXAMPLES OF COMMUNITIES AND TWO OF THEM IN TEXAS THAT DO THAT.

AND WHAT THEY ARE FUNDING IS A NAVIGATOR. AND SO THIS ISN'T REALLY UNHEARD OF FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO PARTICIPATE AT THAT LEVEL.

I THINK THERE ARE ALSO SOME THINGS IN TERMS OF CITY SUPPORT, THINGS THAT ARE LOCAL GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBILITY THAT A DIRECTOR COULD HELP YOU TO NAVIGATE AS WELL, ALONG WITH THE SUPPORT OF NONPROFIT AGENCIES.

THE SECOND QUESTION BLAZE WAS TO COUNCIL REAGAN TEETH.

YEAH. SO WE'RE AS IT STATED, WE'RE NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED FOR OUR WORK HERE.

I WOULD SAY ABILENE, OF ALL THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED, AND WE ARE THE LEADING IN THE STATE FOR OUR SYSTEMS WORK AT THE TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK.

AT THE STATE LEVEL, WE ARE THE ONLY CITY. IT WASN'T LIKE THAT.

BUT AS OF TODAY, WE'RE THE ONLY CITY THAT DOESN'T HAVE CITY PRESENCE IN OUR GAME.

AND SO WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS MANY OF THESE POSITIONS ARE HELD AT THE CITY LEVEL.

THEY'RE IN OTHER COMPARABLE COMMUNITIES. THEY'RE HELD AT THE COUNTY LEVEL THAT THERE'S SOMEONE DIRECTLY LIKE SOME PEOPLE CALL NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES, THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING SERVICES AND OVERSIGHT OF THIS, THIS BIRD'S EYE VIEW OF WHAT IT IS OF SEEING THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS TO THIS, WHICH IS FROM BEING ON THE STREETS, HOMELESS ALL THE WAY INTO PERMANENT HOUSING.

THANK YOU. I DIDN'T HEAR THE TEETH PART. I JUST HEARD INVOLVEMENT.

I DIDN'T HEAR THE TEETH PART. I THINK FOR NON TEETH FOR NONPROFITS, I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY IS IN BY AND LARGE, WE FEEL LIKE OUR PARTNERS ARE SOMEWHAT COOPERATIVE ON THE BIG THINGS, THE GOALS OF USING COORDINATED ENTRY.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE ALL THE RESOURCES THEY NEED TO DO EVERYTHING.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE SOMETIMES THERE, THERE COULD BE MISCHARACTERIZATION OF WHY A PARTICULAR AGENCY ISN'T DOING SOMETHING.

AND THEN I ALSO THINK EVEN IF THEY ARE DOING IT, THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAVE CAPACITY TO MEET EVERY NEED THAT EXISTS.

AND SO SOME OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS FOR PRIVATE FOUNDATIONS AND CHURCHES, I DO THINK THERE IS A PLACE FOR THOSE FOLKS IN THIS CONVERSATION AS WELL.

BUT AS FAR AS I WOULD, I GUESS I NEED TO UNDERSTAND MORE WHAT YOU MEAN BY TEETH TO COOPERATE.

WELL, LET ME I'LL. OKAY. LET ME JUMP IN HERE, PLEASE.

SO I'LL JUST BE CANDID, IF I MAY. AND THIS IS NOT A COMMENT ABOUT EITHER ONE OF YOU OR YOUR ORGANIZATIONS, BUT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.

I WAS PRESIDENT OF ONE WHEN I WAS AT THE PD. I WAS A LIAISON WITH THEM ALL THE TIME.

AND WHAT I CAN TELL YOU, IN MY EXPERIENCE, IS THERE'S TYPICALLY A LOT OF GOOD IDEAS, RIGHT? AND IT'S A LOT OF THIS KIND OF ETHEREAL, CONCEPTUAL TYPE, OH, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO.

BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, AND I'M NOT SAYING Y'ALL ARE DOING THIS, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT PHILOSOPHICALLY WHEN IT

[03:10:01]

COMES DOWN TO WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, AND THERE'S PERFORMANCE METRICS AND THINGS THAT GOALS THAT YOU HAVE TO MEET.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE TEETH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A POSITION THAT'S GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR COLLABORATING WITH MULTIPLE INDEPENDENT NONPROFITS WITH NO REPORTING RESPONSIBILITY TO THIS PERSON, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE FUNDING GOING TO THOSE NONPROFITS.

SO THERE'S NO STRINGS WE CAN ATTACH TO THAT MONEY.

THE MONEY THEORETICALLY GOES TO THIS COORDINATOR OR THE DIRECTOR POSITION AND THE NAVIGATOR POSITION.

LET'S JUST USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN CREATING ANOTHER POSITION THAT GATHERS A BUNCH OF DATA AND GIVES PRESENTATIONS AT PUBLIC EVENTS.

THE TEETH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS, HOW CAN WE COMPEL THESE NONPROFITS THAT PROVIDE ALL THESE DIFFERENT MYRIAD OF SERVICES INTO A UNIFIED SOLUTION THAT PRODUCES A MEASURABLE RESULT THAT ACCOMPLISHES A GOAL INSTEAD OF JUST WE GET ANOTHER DATA GATHERING ENTITY THAT MAKES SENSE.

I'VE SEEN THAT FOR A LONG TIME, AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU ALL DO IT, I'M JUST SAYING I'VE SEEN IT IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD A LOT.

CAN I PIGGYBACK ON THAT A LITTLE BIT? A LOT OF TIMES.

SO FIRST OF ALL, I APPRECIATE, FIRST OF ALL, THAT THIS IS A VERY HARD CONVERSATION TO HAVE TO BE REALISTIC AND PRODUCTIVE WITHOUT SEEMING HEARTLESS AND CRUEL. AND AS ROBERT POINTED OUT, BEING HOMELESS IS NOT A CRIME.

AND SO WE'RE NOT TRYING TO CRIMINALIZE THAT AT ANY POINT.

SO I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S SENSITIVITY TO THIS.

THE SECOND THING IS THAT IN GOVERNMENT, WHICH I'VE SPENT ALMOST MY WHOLE LIFE IN, THERE IS A PRONOUNCED TENDENCY TO FOCUS ON INPUTS AND MONEY SPENT RATHER THAN OUTPUTS AND RESULTS.

AND. I'M NOT SURE THAT WE WANT TO BE REALLY GOOD AT DEALING WITH HOMELESSNESS.

I'M NOT SURE WE WANT TO MAKE ABILENE THE BEST PLACE TO BE HOMELESS IN THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK THAT IT IS NOT A KINDNESS IN GENERAL FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HOMELESS, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING OUTSIDE.

AND IT MAY BE BY CHOICE. IT MAY BE BECAUSE OF DRUG ADDICTION OR MENTAL ILLNESS.

THERE'S A WIDE VARIETY. AND I'M CERTAINLY PREACHING TO THE CHOIR HERE THAT THERE IS A LOT OF REASONS THAT ALL DESERVE COMPASSION AND CARING FROM ALL THE ORGANIZATIONS. BUT WHAT METRICS, WHAT YARDSTICK, WHAT MEASUREMENTS SHOULD WE BE USING? BECAUSE IT'S JUST A FACT THAT IN THAT POPULATION YOU HAVE MORE PROBLEMS, YOU HAVE MORE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, YOU HAVE MORE HEALTH RELATED ISSUES. AGAIN, IT'S NOT A KINDNESS TO ENABLE PEOPLE TO LIVE OUTSIDE, EVEN IF IT'S BY THEIR CHOICE, WHICH AGAIN, IT'S NOT A CRIME.

BUT WHAT WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD MEASURE TO KNOW IF WE'RE BEING SUCCESSFUL, IF WE GOT NO HOMELESS PEOPLE IN ABILENE? IS THAT SUCCESS, OR DID WE JUST GET THEM ON A BUS AND TAKE THEM ALL TO FORT WORTH? I'M BEING A LITTLE FUNNY THAT. BUT THERE WAS A DAY WHEN THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD CHIP IN AND BUY A BUS TICKET AND SEND PEOPLE TO THE NEXT CITY WHO ALSO DID THE SAME THING WITH THEIR HOMELESS PEOPLE.

AND YEAH, IT'S STILL THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT.

I MEAN, THAT THAT'S KIND OF THE CRUX OF MY QUESTION. YOU GUYS ARE PROBABLY THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY WHEN BRAD TAKES THIS ROLE ON HERE IN ABOUT A MONTH. AND THAT THAT KIND OF GETS TO THE CRUX OF MY QUESTION IS, LET'S JUST ASSUME WE FUND THIS POSITION.

WHAT ARE WE HOW ARE WE GOING TO DEFINE SUCCESS? WHAT'S THE GOAL OF THIS POSITION OR THE KIND OF THE OVERALL EFFORT IN GENERAL? IS IT TO REDUCE THE HOMELESS POPULATION? IS IT TO ENSURE WE HAVE ENOUGH HOUSING FOR THE EXISTING HOMELESS POPULATION? IS IT TO INCREASE THE PARTICIPATION IN CHEMICAL DEPENDENCY COUNCIL.

YOU KNOW WHAT. WHAT'S THE GOAL? THAT'S MY YEAH, THERE'S PROBABLY MULTIPLE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SET AS WE SHOULD SET AS GOALS.

AND I THINK IN DOING THAT IS WHERE YOU CAN GET SOME OF THE OTHER FOLKS TO COME TO THE TABLE AND SAY, IF THIS IS WHAT OUR COMMUNITY GOAL IS, WHAT PART ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY IN IT? NONPROFITS. AND AND I, IN MY EXPERIENCE, PEOPLE TEND TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE INVESTED WHEN THEY HAVE SOME INVOLVEMENT IN SETTING THOSE THOSE GOALS AND UNDERSTANDING HOW YOU GET THERE. BUT I ALSO JUST CAN'T NOT SAY SOMETHING ABOUT WE DEAL.

WE HEAR SO MANY MYTHS. AND I CAN ALSO SEE IF YOU LOOK AT SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS, YOU SEE THEM LIKE COME TO LIFE.

YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THAT.

AND ONE OF THEM IS THIS IDEA THAT SO MANY PEOPLE COME HERE BECAUSE IT'S GOOD TO BE HOMELESS IN ABILENE AND IT'S FREE.

AND THERE WAS EVEN A NEWS STORY A FEW MONTHS AGO ABOUT THAT WHERE THEY, YOU KNOW, ASKED A PERSON,

[03:15:02]

YOU KNOW, ARE YOU GETTING SOME FOOD HERE? AND THEY SAID, YES.

BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, ABILENE ISN'T IMMUNE TO THE SAME HOMELESS HOMELESSNESS PROBLEM THAT'S HAPPENING ACROSS THE STATE OF TEXAS.

AND IN OUR EXPERIENCE, AS WE INTERACT WITH PEOPLE ON THE STREET, YES, THERE ARE SOME TRANSIENT PEOPLE, BUT I'VE WORKED AT BETTY HARPER CENTER FOR 30 YEARS, AND I'VE KNOWN THAT TO BE TRUE ALL OF THAT TIME.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE PASSING THROUGH. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO GET OFF THE BUS. THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS IN ABILENE BECAME HOMELESS IN ABILENE.

THIS THESE ARE OUR PEOPLE. THIS THERE ISN'T SOME, YOU KNOW, SECRET TUNNEL TO ABILENE FOR HOMELESS PEOPLE.

HOMELESS UNDERGROUND RAILROAD. THAT'S NOT TRUE.

YEAH. THAT IS THAT'S A MYTH. AND IT GETS PERPETUATED A LOT, A LOT, A LOT.

ANOTHER MYTH IS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE STREET DON'T WANT HOUSING.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO ENGAGE, AND COURTNEY AND MIKE PRADO COULD NAME THEM TO YOU.

AND THERE'S PROBABLY FEWER THAN TEN FOR WHOM THAT'S REALLY TRUE, THAT HAVE BEEN LIKE, YEAH, NO, I DON'T I DON'T WANT HELP FROM YOU. THE MAJORITY OF THE OTHER FOLKS ON THE STREET ARE ANXIOUSLY WAITING FOR THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE SOME SUPPORT IN HOUSING, AND THEY HAVE SOME REAL PROBLEMS. YOU'RE YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

BUT ONE OF THE REASONS WHY BETTY HARDWICK, CENTER, AGREED TO TAKE ON THE HUD PROGRAMS WAS BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE PRETTY GOOD AT HELPING PEOPLE WHO ARE READY TO DO SOME RECOVERING FROM MENTAL HEALTH AND SUBSTANCE USE ISSUES, AND THAT'S WHAT WE DO.

IT'S A HOUSING FIRST PROGRAM, WHICH MEANS THEY DON'T NEED TO BE CLEAN AND SOBER TO ENTER THE PROGRAM.

THEY DON'T ALSO HAVE TO BE IN PERFECT MENTAL HEALTH TO ENTER THE PROGRAM.

THEY CAN ENTER WHEN THEY'RE NOT AT THEIR BEST, AND THEN WE COME ALONGSIDE THEM WITH SUPPORTIVE SERVICES.

AND I COULD PARADE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE IN HERE WHO WOULD, WHO WERE PRETTY PROLIFIC HOMELESS NEIGHBORS IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO TODAY ARE DOING PRETTY DARN GOOD. AND THAT IS NOT THE SIDE OF THE STORY YOU PROBABLY GET TO SEE AS OFTEN.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO JUST KEEP TALKING ABOUT THAT.

BUT BUT ALL ALONG THE PATH TO CHANGING THE STORY, THERE ARE THERE'S DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SERVICE, FROM EMERGENCY SHELTER TO TRANSITIONAL SHELTER TO PERMANENT HOUSING, MENTAL HEALTH, HEALTH CARE, EMPLOYMENT. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE ARE CRITICAL AND NECESSARY IN ORDER FOR THAT PERSON TO CHANGE THEIR STORY.

BUT IT DOES HAPPEN. IT IS HAPPENING. I DON'T THINK THAT ANYONE HERE COULD BE WRONG, BUT ANYONE HERE SAY, WELL, THE HOMELESS, IF WE JUST CLOSE OUR EYES, IT WILL DISAPPEAR.

I THINK EVERYONE IN OUR COMMUNITY AND ON THE COUNCIL UNDERSTANDS, HEY, IT'S NOT OUR IT'S NOT JUST US.

THIS IS THE STATE. THIS IS A NATIONWIDE ISSUE.

THE NUMBERS ARE INCREASING HERE STATEWIDE AND FEDERALLY.

I DON'T THINK THE MENTALITY IS, WELL, WE'VE GOT A IF WE JUST CLOSE OUR EYES THEN THEN, YOU KNOW, THE THE PERSON WHO'S TALKING TO THEMSELVES ON THE CORNER, YOU KNOW, OF DOWNTOWN WILL GO AWAY.

OR THE EMAILS THAT WE GET FROM FROM TOURISTS OR FROM PEOPLE SHOPPING DOWNTOWN WITH THE COMPLAINT ABOUT, HEY, I, YOU KNOW, FELT UNSAFE BECAUSE OF OF THIS SCENARIO OR, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE ON THE CORNER PANHANDLING, WHATEVER IT IS, I DON'T THINK THE MENTALITY IS, WELL, WE'RE JUST TOO GOOD.

WE GIVE TOO MUCH AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. SO WE JUST NEED TO STOP GIVING.

WE JUST NEED TO STOP BEING SO GOOD AND THEN THEY'LL MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR.

RIGHT. SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S THAT'S THE CASE, BUT I, I THINK WE ALL ACKNOWLEDGE THERE'S AN ISSUE.

WE NEED TO ADDRESS IT. I THINK WHAT WE'RE WHAT WHAT THE COUNCIL IS LOOKING FOR HERE THROUGH THROUGH LYNN AND BRIAN'S QUESTIONS ARE OKAY, WE HAVE AN ISSUE. NONPROFITS HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH IT.

THE QUESTION BEFORE US IS, WELL, WHAT IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT IF WE AS THE CITY FUND THIS POSITION? WHAT ARE THE TEETH? WHAT ARE THE METRICS? WHAT IS THE PRACTICAL RESULT OF US OF US GIVING 200,000? HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE COME BACK IN A YEAR THAT WAS 200,000 WELL SPENT, AND LET'S DO IT AGAIN.

THAT, I THINK, IS WHAT WE'RE NEEDING TO HEAR IN PRACTICAL TERMS. WHAT DOES THAT WHAT DOES 200,000 GIVE US IN PRACTICAL TERMS? WE UNDERSTAND THE OVERARCHING MISSION. BUT TODAY I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THAT WE HEAR WHAT IS THAT GIVING US? BECAUSE THEN WE COULD DIRECT THE STAFF. ALL RIGHT. WE WANT THE NONPROFITS AND STAFF TO MEET OVER THE NEXT MONTH.

WORK OUT THAT JOB DESCRIPTION AND YOU'RE GOING TO APPLY FOR THIS GRANT.

OKAY. THAT'S GOING TO COVER 50,000. SO MAYBE THE CITY ONLY NEEDS 150, WHATEVER THAT COMES OUT TO BE.

THAT'S THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE NEED TO GIVE STAFF RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO HEAR WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR $200,000? AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY I'M INVOLVED WITH THIS. SO I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT IT. AND I CAN SAY RIGHT NOW I HAVEN'T HEARD AN ANSWER YET.

AND SO THAT'S WHY I WANT TO MAKE SURE BRIAN AND LYNN AND THE REST OF THE COUNCIL GET AN ANSWER BEFORE YOU GUYS LEAVE, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT YOU THINKING, OH, OKAY, WE'VE GOT THIS GOING BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HEARD THE ANSWER YET.

SO WHAT DO WE GET FOR $200,000? WELL, LET ME I'M NOT ASKING FOR AN ANSWER TODAY.

I THINK SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ARE TOO COMPLICATED TO EXPECT YOU TO JUST KNOW RIGHT NOW.

[03:20:01]

BUT FOR ME, BEFORE I WOULD EVEN CONSIDER SUPPORTING SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHAT'S THE I MEAN, I DON'T EVEN THINK WE KNOW THE GOAL, RIGHT? I MEAN, TO THE AVERAGE CITIZEN, THE GOAL IS PROBABLY IF I OWNED GRUMPS, WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE ENCAMPMENT NEXT TO THE BUSINESS. IF I SHOP DOWNTOWN, I DON'T WANT TO BE ACCOSTED BY SOMEONE.

THAT'S. THAT'S PROBABLY A MEASURE OF SUCCESS TO A CITIZEN THAT JUST LIVES THEIR LIFE IN THE CITY OF ABILENE.

WE SEE THINGS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO SEE THOSE THINGS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. A HOUSING NETWORK IS GOING TO SEE THAT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. A SUBSTANCE ABUSE NONPROFIT OR WHOMEVER IS GOING TO SEE THAT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.

AND SO I'M A PERSON THAT WANTS SOME PRETTY CLEARLY DEFINED GOALS.

FIRST, LET'S DEFINE WHAT THE GOALS ARE GOING TO BE. AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT HOW TO CREATE THE STEPS TO GET THERE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE A COORDINATED POSITION.

I'M NOT SAYING YES OR NO, BUT UNTIL WE COME UP WITH HERE'S THE FIVE THINGS WE WANT TO ACCOMPLISH.

IT'S HARD TO ANSWER, I THINK, TO THAT THAT WAS IN PROBABLY IN THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATION IN THE YEAR THAT WE WERE ASKED TO BE SUPER GENERIC IN WHAT WE PUT HERE, BECAUSE YOU WERE PUT FORTH SO MANY THINGS. THERE'S A COUPLE SYSTEMS THAT YOU PROBABLY MAY NOT, MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW. SO WE DO HAVE A CRISIS RESPONSE SYSTEM, OF COURSE, CALLED COORDINATED ENTRY THAT'S REQUIRED BY HUD.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE A RESPONSE SYSTEM WITH ABILENE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SO THERE ARE SIX OFFICERS THAT ARE HOT OFFICERS, HOMELESS OUTREACH TEAM THAT COORDINATE DIRECTLY OUTREACH SERVICES THROUGH THE WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK. SO SOMETIMES AN OFFICER IS THE FIRST FACE THAT SOMEONE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS SEES.

SO THAT IS ALREADY CREDITED. WE ARE FLOWING WITH THAT, AND THAT WORKS WELL.

WHEN I THINK OF SKIN IN THE GAME, I THINK TO MYSELF, WHEN I'M IN SITUATIONS WHERE I HAVE NO POOL TO MAKE DECISIONS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ENCAMPMENTS TODAY. THIS PRESENCE OF A DIRECTOR WOULD BE OVERSIGHT, WORKING WITH THE CITY.

CITY WORKS ALONG WITH APD. SO IT'S A COORDINATED EFFORT.

THE DIRECTOR COORDINATES THE EFFORTS FOR THE WHOLE SYSTEM THAT WOULD BE HOUSING PLACEMENTS.

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN FLOWING INTO HOMELESSNESS? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE EXITING OUT? WHERE ARE THEY GOING AND ARE THEY STAYING HOMELESS? NOT THAT THAT PERSON MANAGES THAT, BUT MAKES SURE THAT THEY'RE BEING PROVIDED ALL THAT.

WE'RE ALL OFFERING THE SAME SYSTEMS AND SUPPORTS.

IT'S NOT ONE NONPROFIT SAYING, OH, I'M GOING TO GIVE THIS ONE HOUSE TO THIS.

NO, WE'RE ALL WORKING THIS ONE LIST. IT WOULD BE WITH THE NAVIGATION COMPONENT.

YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE LANDLORD. YOU HAVE TO BE UP TO DATE ON ON RENTAL LAWS.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MEDIATOR. YOU HAVE TO HELP PEOPLE FROM ENTERING INTO THE SYSTEM.

BUT SOMEONE HAS TO BE OVERSEEING THESE THINGS WHEN IT'S JUST NOT THEIR ONE JOB OF THEIR NONPROFIT.

THE THE POINT OF THE DIRECTOR IS THAT THEY ARE WORKING WITH THE CITY AND POLICE TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS A SYSTEMATIC APPROACH TO HANDLING THESE THINGS. A LIFE BEYOND MYSELF BEING HERE, A SYSTEM THAT OUTLIVES US ALL.

AND THERE ARE SOME DATA POINTS WE OUR BY NAME LIST, WHICH IS PART OF THE COORDINATED ENTRY MEASURES HOW MANY PEOPLE COME INTO HOMELESSNESS EACH MONTH AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE EXITING OUT.

I THINK THAT'S A HARD NUMBER THAT WE SHOULD SET THAT THOSE DON'T EXCEED.

THAT'S SOME OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE FUNCTIONAL ZERO THAT WE'VE ACHIEVED FOR CHRONIC AND VETERANS AND AND FAMILIES, ALTHOUGH WE HAVEN'T ANNOUNCED THAT PUBLICLY, BUT WE'VE ACTUALLY DONE VERY GOOD WITH THAT IN OUR COMMUNITY.

IF YOU LOOK OVER A PERIOD OF MONTHS, HOW MANY PEOPLE COME IN TO HOMELESSNESS AND HOW MANY PEOPLE GO OUT EACH MONTH, AND AS LONG AS THOSE STAY EQUAL, YOU'RE DOING PRETTY DARN GOOD, AND WE ARE DOING PRETTY GOOD ON THAT.

IT REQUIRES YOU TO HAVE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A COMPLETE NUMBER OF ASSESSMENTS, THOUGH, FOR PEOPLE THAT EVERYBODY WHO'S LIVING OUT ON THE STREETS HAS BEEN ASSESSED TO GET ON THAT LIST. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON THAT TODAY.

IT'S REQUIRING US TO GO AROUND AND SAY TO NONPROFITS, HEY, COULD YOU HAVE SOMEBODY HELP DO THESE ASSESSMENTS? THAT'S WHAT A DIRECTOR WOULD DO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE KEEPING ALL THAT GOING, PLUS WORK ON FUNDING, PLUS HELP NONPROFITS SEE WHERE WHEN THEY'RE NOT BEING SO SUCCESSFUL WITH SOMETHING, HOW THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO TO PIVOT AND DO SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAT WOULD MEET THE OBJECTIVES OF OUR COMMUNITY ALONG WITH COORDINATING WITH YOU.

BUT WE COULD BE A LOT MORE CONCRETE ABOUT THOSE WITH A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO TO WORK ON IT.

WELL, I JUST WANT TO SAY I'M SORRY IF YOU GUYS FELT LIKE YOU WERE PUT ON THE SPOT.

YOU BOTH HAVE DONE AMAZING WORK. YOU KNOW, I KNOW JENNY MORE BETTER THAN I KNOW YOU, BUT YOU ALL HAVE DONE AMAZING WORK FOR A LONG, LONG, LONG TIME. AND I MEAN THAT AS A COMPLIMENT.

AND I APPRECIATE YOUR PASSION FOR THIS. I THINK WE ALL SHARE IT.

WE JUST WANT TO GET TO THE RIGHT PLACE, IS ALL.

YOU KNOW, AND I'D LIKE TO HAVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF THIS BEING A POSITION THAT THE CITY FUNDS VERSUS A POSITION THAT'S FUNDED BY, LIKE THE CHURCHES OF ABILENE OR OTHER NONPROFIT ENTITIES THAT ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT HELPING THE HOMELESS.

SO WE'VE BEEN WE'VE TRIED THAT. WE'VE TRIED THAT.

[03:25:02]

THE COORDINATOR. THE THE REASON WE'VE HAD THE COORDINATOR THAT WE'VE HAD AS LONG AS WE'VE HAD IS BECAUSE A FEDERAL PARTNER FUNDED IT HERE IN ABILENE.

AND FOR TWO YEARS WE TRIED TO TALK WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS ABOUT THIS POSITION WILL GO AWAY.

THIS POSITION WILL GO AWAY. AND WE'VE MADE SUCH GREAT STRIDES.

AND PEOPLE WOULD SAY, OH, YEAH, SHE'S MADE SUCH GREAT STRIDES.

BUT MAKING IT A REGULAR AND ONGOING FUNDING THERE THAT THIS HASN'T THAT HASN'T WE HAVEN'T HAD A PERSON WHO NECESSARILY WANTED TO DO THAT.

I WILL SAY THOUGH, PRIVATE FOUNDATIONS HAVE SUPPORTED.

WE HAVE SOME MONEY RIGHT NOW FROM A FOUNDATION TO KEEP A PIECE OF IT GOING, BUT IT DOESN'T FUND THE FULL, THE FULL POSITION. SO I THINK THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR THIS TO BE A PARTNERSHIP ON A LONGER TERM BASIS, IF NOT ENTIRELY A CITY FUNDED POSITION. BUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO IS TO RELY ON SOMETHING BEING PERMANENT.

SO WE DON'T SPEND ALL OF OUR TIME GOING AROUND TRYING TO DO THIS, AND WE CAN ACTUALLY WORK ON THAT ISSUE WITH THE CLIENTS, WITH THE PROGRAMS THAT WE'RE OPERATING, SO THAT PEOPLE WILL BE SUCCESSFUL. BECAUSE THE REALITY IS GETTING PEOPLE HOUSED IS A CHALLENGE.

AND DEALING WITH THE ENCAMPMENTS. NO DOUBT A CHALLENGE.

BUT KEEPING PEOPLE HOUSED IS REALLY WHERE THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK HAPPENS.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT SOME OF US ARE AIMED AT DOING.

AND WE'RE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME ON THESE KINDS OF THINGS WHEN REALLY THAT SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULD BE SOMEONE ELSE'S ROLE.

IF THIS IS SO IMPORTANT FOR OUR CITY AND COMMUNITY.

AND THAT WAS SUPPORTED. SO FOR COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS, WHICH HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP A COUPLE OF TIMES, WHICH IS THE NATIONAL PARTNER TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, AND THEY'VE GIVEN ABILENE UP AS OF TODAY, OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS, APPROXIMATELY $1 MILLION IN DIRECTORS, COORDINATORS AND SYSTEMS BUILDING.

BUT THE GOAL OF THAT FUNDING OVER TWO YEARS, THREE YEARS FOR DIFFERENT THINGS, TO ACTUALLY GET THESE SYSTEMS SET UP AND COUNT OUR DATA.

WHAT IS OUR HOMELESS PROBLEM? WHAT ARE THE REAL NUMBERS? WHAT IS YOUR INFLOW? WHAT IS YOUR OUTFLOW? THE POINT OF THOSE GRANTS IS THAT THE CITY OR COUNTY WILL BE SO HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS, THAT THEY WILL WANT TO BE ABLE TO HELP SUPPORT THAT.

BEYOND THAT, NATIONAL PARTNER. IF YOU WERE GIVEN UNLIMITED RESOURCES, EASY NOW.

I NEVER WANT TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION. WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST? STATIC CIRCUMSTANCE. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD SAY THAT WE HAVE ZERO PEOPLE WHO LIVE, WHO DON'T HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD? I MEAN, I KNOW THERE'S DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS UNHOUSED, HOMELESS, YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE THINGS, BUT IT CAN.

IS ZERO EVEN POSSIBLE? I DON'T KNOW IF I THINK ZERO IS POSSIBLE.

AND I OFTEN SAY WHEN I'M PRESENTED WITH A QUESTION LIKE THIS, IF YOU SAID, OKAY, TODAY WE'RE GOING TO GO ROUND UP ALL THE HOMELESS PEOPLE AND YOU GET THEM IN AND YOU PUT THEM SOMEWHERE TONIGHT, WE COULD NOT DO IT.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH EMERGENCY SHELTER BEDS FOR PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE UNLIMITED RESOURCES. WE DON'T. YES. YOU HAD ALL THE BEDS TODAY.

IF YOU HAD ALL THE BEDS, COULD YOU COULD YOU ACHIEVE ZERO? AND WE COULD. HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE ZERO? BECAUSE THERE'S WE'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT SCHOOL AGE KIDS WHO ARE ACTUALLY HOMELESS BUT NOT UNHOUSED BECAUSE THEY'RE COUCH SURFING WITH FRIENDS.

AND THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER DISCUSSION THAT I KNOW THE SCHOOL DISTRICT LOVES TO HAVE, BUT NOT LOVES, BUT THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH DIRECTLY. IF YOU HAD UNLIMITED RESOURCES, HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE SUCCESS IF A PERSON BECAME HOMELESS? IS SUCCESS. I HAVE A HOUSE FOR YOU NOW, AND ZERO PEOPLE SLEEP UNDER A MESQUITE TREE.

IS IS THAT SUCCESS OR DO YOU HAVE TO ALLOW FOR.

SOME PEOPLE JUST WANT TO SLEEP OUTSIDE? AND WHAT NUMBER IS THAT? AND THEN THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT ANYBODY TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO.

AND EVEN THOUGH THEY WOULD PREFER A ROOF, THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE.

WHAT DOES PERFECT LOOK LIKE? BECAUSE I'M NOT EVEN SURE WHAT DIRECTION WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE.

I'M SORRY. AS FAR AS THAT FUNCTIONAL ZERO IS IS AN ACHIEVEMENT.

AND I DON'T MEAN TO DIMINISH THAT AND ALL THE GOOD WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE.

THAT'S FANTASTIC. IT DOESN'T COUNT ALL THE HOMELESS.

IT COUNTS CERTAIN POPULATIONS THAT THAT'S A GOOD THING.

BUT WOULDN'T WE BE BETTER WITH ACTUAL ZERO THAN FUNCTIONAL ZERO? IT WOULD BE NICE. I WOULDN'T SAY THAT. I DON'T KNOW THAT I THINK THAT IS PERFECT.

OR THE FACT THAT THERE'S ALWAYS PEOPLE EVERY MONTH COMING IN AND ALWAYS PEOPLE EXITING IS A COMPLICATED FACTOR. I DO THINK IF I HAD UNLIMITED RESOURCES, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO WORK ON REALLY HARD IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

[03:30:01]

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. I DO THINK SOME EMERGENCY SHELTER.

I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULD GO TO EMERGENCY SHELTER TODAY IF IT WAS A LOW BARRIER SHELTER, AND THEY COULD GO AND STAY AT WHAT SHELTER? LOW BARRIER.

MEANING YOU'RE NOT OUT OF RULES. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO COME IN AND GET TOLD YOU CAN'T DO THAT. YOU CAN'T DO YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IS IS A CHALLENGE.

AND THAT'S AGAIN, NOT NOT BEING CRITICAL OF WHAT EXISTS TODAY.

JUST SAYING PROBABLY WE COULD USE MORE CAPACITY IN THAT.

AND ALSO I DO THINK FROM A CASE MANAGEMENT PERSPECTIVE, YOU RAISE THAT THOSE PEOPLE NEED PEOPLE TO WORK WITH.

THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT YOU WOULD INVEST SOME OF THAT UNLIMITED RESOURCES IN.

YOU WOULD WANT TO BUILD ALL OF THAT OUT, AND YOU WOULD DEFINITELY WANT SOMEBODY WHO'S IN CHARGE.

WELL, SO YOU'RE CERTAINLY NEVER GOING TO ELIMINATE THE INPUT, THE NEW HOMELESS, THAT PEOPLE EXPERIENCE OUTRAGEOUS MISFORTUNE IN THEIR LIVES EVERY DAY, AND NOT BY THEIR CHOICE THAT ARE FORCED INTO THE CIRCUMSTANCES I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK ABOUT HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT IF WE HAD THE BEST RESPONSE? IS IT NOBODY SLEEPS OUTSIDE? IS IT? EVERYBODY HAS A PLACE AND IT MIGHT NOT BE A PERMANENT PLACE.

IT COULD BE EMERGENCY MATCH THE OUTPUT WITH THE INPUT BECAUSE WE'VE INTENTIONALLY, WITH THE REBUILD ABI PROGRAM, PUT $1 MILLION FOR TWO YEARS NOW INTO ENCOURAGING AND INCREASING THE SUPPLY OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN ABILENE.

THAT'S NOT TRYING TO BREAK OUR ARM BY PATTING OURSELVES ON THE BACK.

BUT BUT THERE'S THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT'S GOING ON THIS.

I KNOW THERE ARE HOMEBUILDERS. I KNOW THERE ARE PROPERTY OWNERS AND PROPERTY MANAGERS WHO SPECIFICALLY ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS THIS, AND NOT ALWAYS FROM A PROFIT PERSPECTIVE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH BIG HEARTS WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP THAT HASN'T SOLVED THE PROBLEM.

WE STILL HAVE A SHORTAGE. AND I'M ASIDE FROM SALVATION ARMY, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE A WHAT I WOULD CALL AN APPROPRIATE OR AN EMERGENCY SHELTER.

AND CERTAINLY I'M NOT SURE I'D CHARACTERIZE THAT AS NO BARRIERS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS OF WHAT ARE WE WHAT DOES RIGHT LOOK LIKE IF WE COULD DREAM THE PERFECT SITUATION, BECAUSE THAT MIGHT SHAPE OUR ANSWER OF WHAT ARE WE WORKING TOWARDS AS A AS A GROUP? AND WHAT IS THIS DIRECTOR SPEND THEIR TIME ON? BECAUSE I'M NOT I'M NOT PERSUADED THAT MORE DATA IS THE ANSWER.

I THINK WE MIGHT NEED A VISION. A DREAM OF NO, NO.

HOMELESS IN ABILENE. IF YOU SHOW UP IN ABILENE AND YOU'RE HOMELESS, WE'RE TAKING YOU TO THE EMERGENCY SHELTER.

YEAH, MAYBE WE'RE NOT DOING A GOOD JOB OF CONVEYING IT, BUT OUR OUR MISSION IS THAT.

THERE YOU GO. JUST THAT IT WILL. HOMELESSNESS WILL BE RARE, BRIEF AND NONRECURRING IN ABILENE AND ZERO.

I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S NOT A VISION OF ZERO. I THINK WE FEEL CHALLENGED BY, AT TIMES, THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN COMMUNITY ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE IT IS DIFFICULT. SO I WOULD BE HAPPY IF INFLOW AND OUTFLOW COULD MATCH.

RIGHT. LIKE I THINK THAT'S A THAT'S A REALLY GREAT GOAL AND IT'S AND IT'S NOT DATA WE DON'T HAVE.

WE HAVE IT THE WHAT I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO CONVEY ABOUT THE HAVING SOME LEADERSHIP ON IT IS IT'S SOMEBODY WHO TAKES THAT DATA AND THEN TRANSLATES IT INTO ACTIONABLE STEPS FOR OUR ENTIRE COMMUNITY INVOLVING CITY, COUNTY, NONPROFITS, CHURCHES, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WHO NEED TO BE AT THE TABLE BECAUSE THIS IS EVERYBODY'S ISSUE. WE ALL LIVE HERE. WE'RE ALL BUSINESS OWNERS OR BUSINESS OPERATORS WHO HAVE PEOPLE WHO SLEEP ON OUR ALCOVES AND PORCHES, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE ALL HAVE THOSE SAME CONCERNS.

AND WE ALSO, I THINK ALL HAVE COMPASSION FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING, WHICH IS REALLY IT'S ALL IT IS A COMPLEX ISSUE.

WE THANK YOU FOR HEARING US OUT TODAY AND PROBABLY THE BEST DISCUSSION WE'VE EVER HAD ON THIS.

I APPRECIATE YOU ALL VERY MUCH. COURTNEY, YOU HAD MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES CITIES OR COUNTIES ARE FUNDING POSITIONS LIKE THIS.

IS THIS AN ISSUE THAT EXTENDS INTO THE COUNTY, OR IS THIS MAINLY IN THE CITY LIMITS OF ABILENE? I'M JUST USING COMPARABLE COMMUNITIES, SO I MEET WITH STAKEHOLDERS FOR THAT.

I'M JUST SAYING FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF CROWLEY AND CHUCK, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THIS WAS AN ISSUE.

THAT'S I DON'T KNOW OF ANY COUNTY THAT'S DOING THAT IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.

THESE ARE OUR HOMELESSNESS ISSUE IS PRIMARILY IN THE CITY.

YES. OKAY. AND I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF IT EXTENDED OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS.

WE WE HAVE LOOKED AT PICKING UP TAYLOR COUNTY IS FULL TO PICK UP THE PARTS OF JONES AND CALLAHAN, BUT WE WE ARE STRUGGLING WITH CAPACITY AS WE SIT TODAY.

ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE IN THIS DISCUSSION, OTHER THAN JUST THE MIKE, OTHER THAN JUST WE'VE HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION BECAUSE I THINK THIS REALLY HAS BEEN A GOOD DISCUSSION IS WHAT'S THE OUTCOME? SO WE DON'T HAVE ANOTHER REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION SIX MONTHS FROM NOW.

SO IS THE OUTCOME FOR STAFF TO WORK WITH WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK AND HOPE HAVEN, SIR?

[03:35:02]

I STILL HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. YES, SIR.

YEAH, I'LL SIT DOWN. YOU TRIED TO BE THE SHUT UP MUSIC AT THE ACADEMY AWARDS, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK.

YEAH. THANK YOU THOUGH. I THOUGHT I WAS RUNNING THE MEETING, BUT ANYWAY.

BUT AREN'T YOU PUBLIC NOW? THIS IS FOR DISCUSSION.

ONLY TODAY. BUT AT THIS TIME, I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST THIS ITEM? PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

I'M ROSTEN CALLARMAN. I LIVE AT 850 CANYON COURT AND I AM THE DIRECTOR OF HOPE OR HABITAT FOR HUMANITY.

SORRY, COURTNEY. AND I AM THE CHAIR OF FAMILY HOMELESSNESS FOR WEST TEXAS HOMELESS NETWORK.

SHANE, YOUR QUESTION SPECIFICALLY, I WANTED TO COMMENT ON A LITTLE BIT THE QUESTION AROUND IT WAS LOCAL FOUNDATIONS.

LOCAL FOUNDATIONS TYPICALLY LIKE TO GIVE MONEY MORE TOWARDS PROGRAMS RATHER THAN ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

AND SO THE IDEA OF PUTTING CITY MONEY TOWARDS ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS ACTUALLY MAKES IT MORE LIKELY LOCAL FOUNDATIONS AND CHURCHES WOULD WANT TO JUMP ON BOARD. IT WAS MORE CHURCHES THAN FOUNDATION, BUT SURE.

YEAH, BOTH OF THEM. THANK YOU. THEY THEY DON'T LIKE TO HAVE THE RECURRING COST ON THEIR BOOKS, TYPICALLY, ESPECIALLY FOR SOMETHING LIKE HOMELESSNESS AND SOCIAL SERVICES.

OKAY, SO THANKS, ROSS. ROSS. STILL IN THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD OR THE PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM 36? WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK AT THIS TIME? GOOD MORNING MAYOR. AND OR ACTUALLY AFTERNOON MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

I HAD NOT PLANNED TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM TODAY.

NORMALLY I WOULD SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT CHILDREN AND CHILDCARE, BUT I'M GOING TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE TODAY.

DAY NURSERY OF ABILENE HAD A HUD GRANT MANY YEARS AGO TO PROVIDE CHILDCARE FOR HOMELESS CHILDREN.

SO WE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH ABILENE HOPE HAVEN WHEN THOSE CHILDREN WERE HOMELESS.

I MEAN, IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL. HOWEVER, THERE WERE MANY TIMES WHEN DAY NURSERY OF ABILENE DIDN'T HAVE SPACE IN ITS CENTERS, AND SO WE ENDED UP TURNING THAT GRANT OVER TO ABILENE HOPE HAVEN TO MANAGE IT SO THAT THEY COULD CHOOSE OTHER PROVIDERS TO HELP WITH THAT.

AND SO ANYWAY, THAT'S THE WAY WE DID IT. THE OTHER THOUGHT THAT CAME TO MY MIND TODAY IS ALL THE DISCUSSION ABOUT PETS IN ABILENE.

AND I THINK THAT'S VERY THAT'S WONDERFUL. THE VERY FIRST CHILD ABUSE REGULATIONS WERE MIRRORED ON HOW PETS WERE ABUSED, ODDLY ENOUGH. SO I FIND THAT STRANGE, BUT ALSO IMPORTANT THAT OUR CITY IS TAKING CARE OF PETS.

ALSO SHOULD BE CONTINUING TO TAKE CARE OF HOMELESS.

I THINK OUR VISION FOR A CITY SHOULD BE ZERO HOMELESSNESS.

AND I THINK IF YOU ARE, WHETHER IT'S IT'S NOT CRIMINAL, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT WHY NOT ENVISION A CITY THAT HAS ZERO HOMELESSNESS SO THAT WE WOULD INVEST ENOUGH IN OUR PEOPLE TO KEEP THEM SAFE, WHETHER THEY'RE HOMELESS OR NOT, HOMELESS, AND WANT TO ADDRESS THAT.

A CITY DIRECTOR POSITION TO TO HELP WITH THIS, I THINK IS WONDERFUL, AND I HOPE THAT YOU ALL WILL CONSIDER THAT.

SO THANK YOU. STILL AND THE PUBLIC HEARING, WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM 36? SEEING NO ONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING COUNCIL.

DO YOU HAVE MORE DISCUSSION? DO WE HAVE A PATH THAT WE WANT TO PRESENT TO STAFF THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW AT THIS TIME? MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE AND ROBERT, IF YOU NEED MORE DIRECTION, LET ME KNOW.

MY. MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE THAT WE HAVE A STAFF MEET WITH JENNY AND COURTNEY TO WORK OUT WHAT THAT JOB DESCRIPTION WOULD BE, HOW SUCCESS IS MEASURED, AND THE FUNDING OPTION WORKING AT THE 200,000 LEVEL BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATION.

WHAT GRANTS ARE AVAILABLE TO FUND THAT? AND THEN IF IT ONLY COVERS A PORTION, WHAT THE ADDITIONAL AMOUNT WOULD BE THAT THE CITY WOULD WOULD POTENTIALLY FUND. IS THAT ENOUGH DIRECTION? MINDY AND ROBERT.

AND THEN TO COME BACK TO US AND SAY, HERE'S HERE'S WHAT WE WORKED OUT, HERE'S HOW MUCH THE CITY WOULD FUND.

HERE'S THE JOB DESCRIPTION HERE. HERE'S HOW WE WOULD MEASURE THE SUCCESS. YEAH, THAT'S THE BALANCE OF COUNCIL. THAT'S THAT'S GOOD DIRECTION. YES, SIR. OKAY.

I'M NOT I'M JUST NOT PREPARED TO GO THERE YET MYSELF.

I'M NOT OPPOSED TO IT PHILOSOPHICALLY AT ALL.

I'M NOT I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE. AND I UNDERSTAND THE POSITION OF A DIRECTOR WOULD DO A LOT OF THIS, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO SET WE NEED TO SET THE VISION AND THE GOAL.

[03:40:02]

IF THE CITY IS GOING TO FUND THIS, THEN IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SET THE VISION AND THE GOAL FOR IT, IN MY OPINION. AND I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE DONE THAT.

IS IT INPUTS MATCH OUTPUTS PERPETUALLY. IS IT? YOU KNOW, THAT'S A WIDE RANGING DISCUSSION. BUT YOU VOLUNTEERING FOR A SUBCOMMITTEE? NO, BRAD IS THOUGH. I THINK IT'S IT'S KIND OF GOES WITHOUT SAYING THERE'S AN ISSUE HERE, BUT I'M NOT CONVINCED WE'VE LANDED THE PLANE ON WHAT WE WANT TO DO TO ADDRESS IT.

AND I JUST DON'T THINK I'M NOT READY TO START FUNDING ANYTHING UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO TRY AND ACCOMPLISH WITH IT FIRST.

WELL, I AGREE WITH THAT. I THOUGHT DIRECTIONS WAS JUST TO LOOK TO SEE WHAT THIS POSITION WOULD LOOK LIKE.

NOT. NOT FIND A POSITION. OH, I KNOW, I KNOW.

AND IT MAY BE 100% FUNDED BY THE GRANT. WE DON'T KNOW.

IT MAY BE $20 THAT WE NEED, OR IT MAY BE 200,000.

AND THEY COME BACK TO US. AND AT THAT POINT WE SAY, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

NO EITHER NO OR GO REWORK THIS. I THINK AT THIS POINT THEY'RE JUST LOOKING FOR DIRECTION AND I'M COMFORTABLE SAYING, HEY, GO SIT IN A ROOM AND WORK THIS OUT. AND THEN ONCE YOU GUYS WORK OUT THE FUNDING AND THE JOBS AND THE JOB DESCRIPTION AND THE METRIC AND WHAT IS SUCCESS, COME BACK TO US. AND THEN WE CAN GO, YEAH, WE LIKE THAT, OR LET'S TWEAK THAT MISSION.

I CAN DO THAT. I CAN GO I CAN GET BEHIND THAT.

SO THEN I'M GOING TO TAKE THAT AS COUNCIL DIRECTION UNLESS I HEAR ANYTHING ELSE.

I'M FINE WITH THAT. I'M LIKE, LYNN, I'M NOT READY TO COMMIT TO THE FUNDING BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

I THINK WE NEED MORE DISCUSSION, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO START HERE.

GOOD. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. THIS ITEM SODOM WAS FOR DISCUSSION ONLY.

NO VOTES OR ACTIONS WERE TAKEN ON IT. IT IS NOW 1212, 18 AND WE ARE GOING TO PLOW THROUGH.

[EXECUTIVE SESSION]

WE'RE GOING INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION PURSUANT TO THE OPEN MEETING ACT, SECTION 551.071.

CONSULTATION WITH ATTORNEY. SECTION 551.072. DELIBERATION ABOUT REAL PROPERTY.

SECTION 551.073. DELIBERATIONS ABOUT GIFTS AND DONATIONS.

SECTION 551.074 PERSONNEL MATTERS. SECTION 551.076 DELIBERATIONS ABOUT SECURITY DEVICES.

SECTION 551.087 DELIBERATIONS ABOUT BUSINESS PROSPECTS AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

WE WILL BE BACK. WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT'S UP THERE.

OH, IT IS 1230. YEAH. OKAY. WELL, GOOD. IT IS NOW 12:31 P.M.

[RECONVENE]

AND WE RECONVENE INTO OPEN SESSION. NO VOTES OR ACTIONS WERE TAKEN DURING THE EXECUTIVE SESSION.

WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 38, WHICH IS THE APPOINTMENT OF AND OR REAPPOINTMENT TO VARIOUS BOARDS COMMISSIONS,

[38. Resolution: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Appointing Members to Various Boards and Commissions per the City Charter (Shawna Atkinson)]

THAT IS LANDMARKS COMMISSION DEREK HOOD IN THE NEW POSITION, STREET MAINTENANCE ADVISORY AND APPEALS BOARD.

JOY D'VORAH REAPPOINTMENT. BRANSON HER REAPPOINTMENT.

AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST THIS ITEM? PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. SEEING NO ONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

DOES COUNCIL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? NOT ACCEPT A MOTION AND A SECOND.

SO MOVED. I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN MCALLISTER.

SECOND. SECOND BY COUNCILMAN PRICE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY.

OUR TERMINALS ARE DOWN, SO WE'RE GOING TO ROLL CALL.

VOTE. YES. ALL RIGHT. MAYOR PRO TEM MCALLISTER.

YES. COUNCIL MEMBER PRICE. YES. COUNCIL MEMBER.

BEARD. YES. COUNCIL MEMBER. REAGAN. YES. COUNCIL MEMBER.

YATES. YES. AND. MAYOR. HURT. YES. ABSTAIN FROM STREET MAINTENANCE.

OKAY. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. WE'LL NOW MOVE TO ITEM 29, WHICH IS THE APPOINTMENT OF MINDY PATTERSON AS CITY MANAGER.

[39. Oral Resolution: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Appointing Mindy Patterson as the City Manager (Robert Hanna)]

AT THIS TIME, I WILL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK EITHER FOR OR AGAINST THIS ITEM? PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. FIRST, TAMI FOGEL, RESIDENT OF ABILENE. FIRST, I JUST WANNA SAY CONGRATULATIONS. THAT'S EXCITING. I'M GLAD TO KNOW WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO WHO'S BEEN AROUND A WHILE KNOWING WHAT SHE'S DOING SO THAT WE'RE NOT KIND OF GOING AWOL ON IT, YOU KNOW, ON ALL THE CITY ACTIVITIES OR BUSINESSES.

THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS JUST FOR CLERICAL PURPOSES, BECAUSE I'VE LEARNED WORDS MATTER.

AND SO I JUST HAPPENED TO SEE THE KTAB ARTICLE THIS WEEK, TWO DAYS AGO, TO BE EXACT, THAT SHARED THAT SHE WAS THE INTERIM MANAGER.

AND NOW I NOTICE ON HERE IT JUST SAYS AS CITY MANAGER.

SO I JUST WOULD APPRECIATE JUST THAT THAT'S JUST MORE OF A CLERICAL THING BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BYPASSED YOU KNOW, SHE'S SHE I KNOW SHE'S SOON TO RETIRE. SO I'M NOT SURE SHE'S READY FOR THE FULL FLEDGED NON-INTERIM POSITION.

BUT ANYWAY, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT MATTERED OR IF THAT INDEED WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT WAS EASIER TO PUT IN THE THE MINUTE OF THE AGENDA.

SO ANYWAY. THANK YOU. WELL, MARCH 29TH, MINDY PATTERSON WILL BE THE CITY MANAGER.

[03:45:02]

OKAY. WHEN ROBERT RETIRES. MARCH 20TH. MARCH 29TH.

MINDY PATTERSON WILL BE THE CITY MANAGER, BUT WE ARE STILL IN A SEARCH TO HIRE ANOTHER CITY MANAGER.

PERFECT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CHARTER DOES NOT ALLOW FOR THAT TITLE.