[00:00:01] WE GOOD NOW? THIS IS THE ABILENE LANDMARKS COMMISSION. [ CALL TO ORDER] THE OVERALL PURPOSE OF THE COMMISSION IS TO ADMINISTER THE PROVISIONS OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR THE PROTECTION AND PRESERVATION OF LOCAL HISTORIC PROPERTIES. THE COMMISSION ACTS ONLY AS A RECOMMENDING BOARD TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL ON MATTERS OF HISTORIC OVERLAY ZONING. HOWEVER, THE COMMISSION IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY FOR APPROVAL ON CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS APPLICATIONS AND HISTORIC PROJECT TAX REDUCTION CASES. DECISIONS REGARDING CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS MAY BE APPEALED TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION BY WRITTEN REQUEST TO THE PLANNING DIRECTOR OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE, NO LATER THAN 15 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS MEETING. DECISIONS REGARDING REGARDING HISTORIC PROJECT TAX REDUCTION MAY BE APPEALED TO THE CITY COUNCIL BY WRITTEN REQUEST TO THE CITY SECRETARY NO LATER THAN TEN DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS MEETING. THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO SPEAK ON ANY ITEM UNDER DISCUSSION BY THE LANDMARKS COMMISSION AFTER RECEIVING RECOGNITION BY THE CHAIR. THOSE WISHING TO BE HEARD SHALL APPROACH THE PODIUM. STATE YOUR NAME AND PURPOSE FOR APPEARING. EACH SPEAKER IS REQUESTED TO LIMIT THEIR PRESENTATION TO NO MORE THAN THREE MINUTES. ADDITIONAL TIME MAY BE GRANTED AT THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIR. [1. Minutes: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Approving the Minutes from the Regular Meeting Held on November 25, 2025.] THE FIRST ITEM IS THE MINUTES RECEIVED REPORT, HOLD A DISCUSSION AND PUBLIC HEARING AND TAKE ACTION ON APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM THE REGULAR MEETING HELD ON NOVEMBER 25TH, 2025. AND DOES ANY COMMISSIONER OR MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HAVE COMMENTS ON THE MINUTES? DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? SO MOVED. SECOND. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES? AYE. ANYONE OPPOSED? MINUTES PASS. AGENDA ITEMS. [2. CA-2025-05: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on a Request for Certificate of Appropriateness (CA) Located at 555 Palm Street to Demolish the Existing Carriage House and Rebuild it in the Same Location. (Kera Valois)] THE FIRST CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS C A 2020 505. RECEIVE A REPORT. HOLD A DISCUSSION AND PUBLIC HEARING AND TAKE ACTION ON A REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. LOCATED AT 555 PALM STREET TO DEMOLISH THE EXISTING CARRIAGE HOUSE AND REBUILD IT IN THE SAME LOCATION. NOW WE WILL HAVE THE STAFF REPORT. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS KIRA. I'M A PLANNER FOR THE CITY OF ABILENE. TODAY I'M REPRESENTING CASE C, A 2020 505. THE OWNER IS AARON AND MEGAN RUFF. THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO DEMOLISH AND REBUILD THE CARRIAGE HOUSE LOCATED IN THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY. THE LANDERS HOUSE, BUILT IN 1927, IS A CRAFTSMAN STYLE HOME. THE BRICK HOME FEATURES WOOD TRIM AND HORIZONTAL LINES WITH A LARGE FRONT PORCH TYPICAL OF THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE FROM THE EARLY 1900S. THIS PROPERTY WAS GRANTED HISTORICAL OVERLAY IN 1998, AND AN EMERGENCY DEMO WAS APPROVED FOR THIS LOCATION BY OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL ON MARCH 9TH. HERE WE HAVE THE LOCATION MAP. THE AERIAL MAP. THE ZONING MAP. HERE ARE VIEWS OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. SOME PHOTOS OF THE DAMAGE IN THE OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. HERE ARE THE PAINT COLORS. THE OAK MOSS WILL BE THE PRIMARY COLOR, WHILE THE ANTIQUE WHITE WILL BE THE COLOR USED FOR THE ACCENT AND TRIM. REVIEW OF THE PURSUIT OF THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR THE. FOR THE REHABILITATION OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST. I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. CAN WE GO BACK TO THE PICTURES? YES, THIS ONE OR THE OTHER ONE? I GUESS I HAVE A QUESTION. SO WHAT? WE MAYBE GO BACK ONE MORE SO THAT ALL LOOKS LIKE FRESH PAINT. SO ARE THEY SHARING THIS STRUCTURE DOWN? THEY DECIDED TO GO AHEAD AND TEAR THIS ALL DOWN, ARE WE? SO THEY ORIGINALLY APPLIED FOR AN INTERIOR PERMIT TO REBUILD IT. AND ONCE THEY GOT DOWN TO THE STUDS, THAT IS WHEN THEY FOUND THE DAMAGE YOU CAN SEE IN HERE. [00:05:04] THE CONTRACTOR DID WRITE A LETTER STATING THE DAMAGE. OUR PROPERTY MAINTENANCE INSPECTORS DID GO OUT THERE AS WELL AND CONFIRMED THE DAMAGE TO THE PROPERTY. SO A DEMOLITION WAS APPROVED FOR IT. SO IS THAT DAMAGE, IS THAT TERMITE DAMAGE THAT ALMOST JUST LOOKS LIKE WATER DAMAGE. THERE'S A LOT OF TERMITE DAMAGE IN IT. THE BUILDING IS GONE NOW, THOUGH. IT'S ALREADY BEEN DEMOLISHED. YES, SIR. OKAY. THERE'S. IS THERE THERE? WAS THERE ANY REPORT DONE OR ANYTHING ON LIKE ACTUAL OR DO WE HAVE THE REPORT WHERE WE CAN LOOK AT. THERE WAS A, OUR PROPERTY MAINTENANCE INSPECTORS WENT OUT THERE VIEWED THE PROPERTY AND AGREED WITH THE CONTRACTOR THAT IT WAS IN NEED OF EMERGENCY DAMAGE. EMERGENCY DEMO DUE TO THE DAMAGE OF IT. OKAY, WELL, IF IT'S ALREADY BEEN DEMOLISHED. SEEMS LIKE THAT SETTLES IT. ARE THERE ANY ARE THERE ANY PLANS OR DRAWINGS FOR THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT? THE REQUEST IS TO REPLACE AS THEY'RE WANTING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THE MAIN STRUCTURE. HAVE ALL THE HISTORICAL FEATURES TO IT AND THEN HAVE THE HISTORICAL COLORS FROM. THAT THEY PICKED OUT FROM. I THINK IT'S SHERMAN'S, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE THE SAME LAYOUT. AND THE ROOF PITCHES AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO STAY EXACTLY THE SAME. YES. AND THE FOOTPRINT IS JUST THE SAME. YES. BUT THEY WERE GOING TO FIX THE FOUNDATION AND EVERYTHING. AND YOU CAN SEE IT DOESN'T EXTEND ALL THE WAY. SO THEY'RE GOING TO EXTEND THE FOUNDATION INSTEAD OF JUST THE DIRT FOUNDATION. OKAY. THAT DIRT PART MAYBE ORIGINALLY WAS WELL, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THAT WAS A CARRIAGE. BRING IT BACK WITH ONE PICTURE PER PAGE. YEAH. SO THERE'S A DOOR NOW, BUT ORIGINALLY IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN PLACE TO PARK A CAR OR A CARRIAGE. SOME OF THOSE BOARDS ARE PRETTY. YEAH. YEAH. DID THEY SALVAGE ANY OF THE MATERIALS THAT WERE FROM THE SIDING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT ONE. WAS THE WAS THE I GUESS WAS THE LAYOUT DOCUMENTED AS FAR AS WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY. I MEAN, DO THEY HAVE A PLAN PUT TOGETHER FOR THE REBUILD ON IT? OR HOW WOULD HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PUT IT BACK THE WAY THAT THEY'VE GOT A PERMIT THAT WAS ORIGINALLY PULLED WITH A LAYOUT OF HOW THEY'RE GOING TO DESIGN THE INSIDE OF THIS. BUT WHEN THE CONTRACTOR COME OUT THERE, IT JUST WAS FALLING APART. BUT THEY'RE WANTING TO MAKE IT AS HISTORICALLY ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE. ANY OTHER STAFF QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? WE WILL CLOSE THE STAFF PORTION AND OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC. DO I HAVE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? OKAY, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION AND ANY ANY DISCUSSION. I GUESS WE'RE APPROVING THE ALREADY TORN DOWN, BUT THEN WE'RE ALSO APPROVING THE REBUILD OF IT. BUT THEN WILL THEY COME BACK AND SUBMIT DRAWINGS OR ARE WE JUST GOING TO LIKE APPROVE IT TO BE REBUILT? AND THEN THEY'RE JUST GOING TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN TO TERRY, YOU WANT TO COME AND ADDRESS THAT OR I CAN I CAN DO IT. OKAY. SO OBVIOUSLY THE REQUEST WOULD HAVE BEEN WHERE Y'ALL WOULD APPROVE THE DEMO AND THEN THE REBUILD IN THE SAME FOOTPRINT. BUT THIS HAS BEEN ON AGENDA SINCE DECEMBER ALSO. SO THE REQUEST AT THIS POINT IS TO JUST REBUILD THE, BASICALLY THE EXTERIOR WALLS IN THE SAME FOOTPRINT BECAUSE WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE INTERIOR. SO THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THAT. SO WE HAVE ON FILE FROM THE ALTERATION PERMIT, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING. SO WHENEVER THEY GO BACK TO PULL THE PERMIT FOR THIS NEW BUILDING, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT IT IS THE SAME FOOTPRINT. EXTERIOR WALL WAS AS WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED WITH THE ALTERATION. WOULD THAT INCLUDE THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS MATERIALS? WE WILL LOOK AT ALL OF THAT AND THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO KIND OF GIVE US. WE DON'T REQUIRE LIKE DRAFTED, LIKE FULL SCALE RENDERINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT THEY WILL NEED TO, [00:10:06] TO TELL US LIKE THE FEATURES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THEY'LL NEED TO TELL US THAT BEFORE WE APPROVE THE PERMIT. SO IT WILL BE ON STAFF TO, TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT MATCHES BEFORE THE PERMITS ARE ISSUED. OKAY. FAIR ENOUGH. DO I HAVE A MOTION? I MOTION TO APPROVE. I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE C A 2020 505. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND. MR. YOUNG. YES. MR.. HALLGREN. YES. MR.. YES. MR. HOOD? YES. MISS ELLEN? YES, MISS PARTAIN. YES, AND MISS LEE. YES. AND THE MOTION TO APPROVE CARRIES. NEXT ITEM C A 2020 601. RECEIVE A REPORT, HOLD A DISCUSSION AND PUBLIC HEARING, AND TAKE ACTION ON A REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE [3. CA-2026-01: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on a Request for Certificate of Appropriateness (CA) to Add a Drive-Thru Window for the Library Located at 1699 S. 1st Street. (Kera Valois)] OF APPROPRIATENESS. CA TO ADD A DRIVE THROUGH WINDOW FOR THE LIBRARY LOCATED AT 1699 SOUTH FIRST STREET. WE WILL HAVE THE STAFF REPORT. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS KIARA VALOIS, PLANNER FOR THE CITY OF ABILENE. TODAY I'M REPRESENTING CASE C, A 2020 601 OWNER IS ABILENE HERITAGE SQUARE. THE REQUEST IS TO ADD A DRIVE THROUGH TO. FOR THE LIBRARY. THE ABILENE HERITAGE SQUARE WAS BUILT IN 1923. IS A LATE GOTHIC REVIVAL STYLE. THE THREE STORY BUILDING IS A STONE ACCENTED WITH A. CRENELATED PARAPET ROOFLINE, GOTHIC ARCHED ENTRYWAYS, CARVED STONE FINALS AND STATUTORY GROTESQUE. HERE WE HAVE THE LOCATION MAP. THE AERIAL MAP. THE ZONING MAP. PHOTOS OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND WHERE THEY ARE PLANNING ON PUTTING THE DRIVE THROUGH FOR THE LIBRARY. REVIEW THE FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS REVIEWED PURSUANT TO THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR THE REHABILITATION OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST. I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. THERE WERE MORE PHOTOS OF THE ORIGINAL BUILDING AFTER THAT. DO YOU HAVE ALL THE AGENDA THAT'S ON THERE OR NO. OR PART OF THE POWERPOINT I DON'T HAVE THAT WAS JUST IN THE PACKET. YOU CAN LOOK AT MY. THIS ITEM IS ALSO ALREADY BEEN DONE. YEAH, THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY QUESTION. I DID SEND A MESSAGE TO THE GROUP IS IT'S THE WORKS COMPLETED. I DROVE BY IT AFTER GETTING THIS. SO I'M JUST KIND OF CURIOUS WHAT OUR. PROCEDURALLY, WHAT OUR ROLE IS IN THIS. IF. SO, IF YOU DON'T APPROVE IT, THEY'D HAVE TO TEAR IT DOWN, BUT I JUST. I GUESS I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE APPROVAL PROCESS AND WHY IT GETS TO A POINT WHERE IT'S CONSTRUCTED. AND THEN WE'RE. WE'RE ASKED TO REVIEW. IT SHOULD BE. I MEAN, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY DESIGN DRAWINGS. I'M CURIOUS WHY IT DIDN'T COME ACROSS OUR DESK UNTIL IT'S CONSTRUCTED. SO THE PD THAT THIS WAS ORIGINALLY FOR WASN'T THE DRIVE THROUGH WAS NOT PERMITTED FOR THE MAIN BUILDING. THEY HAD A PD AMENDMENT IN STATES THAT HAS TO BE APPROVED BEFORE IT CAN BE BUILT BY THE LANDMARKS COMMISSION. THIS HAS BEEN WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE AGENDA FOR JANUARY. AGAIN, WE HAD THE SNOW THAT CANCELED THAT ONE. SO IT'S JUST BEEN A DELAYED PROCESS FOR THIS ONE AS WELL. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY ALTERED THE STONE STRUCTURE. CORRECT. THEY DIDN'T. OR DID THEY? THE APPLICANT IS HERE, I BELIEVE. HE'D BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT PART OF IT. THEY THEY DO HAVE A SPOKESPERSON HERE THAT'S GOING TO TELL US MORE IN A LITTLE BIT. SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? NO, I'D JUST LIKE TO ECHO THAT. IT SEEMS TO BE A TREND OF MAYBE MISFORTUNE OR PLANNING OR WHATEVER, BUT REGARDLESS, KIND OF HAVING TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS OR ASK FOR APPROVAL AFTER THE FACT IS A LITTLE FRUSTRATING. THESE ARE KIND OF UNUSUAL CASES. YEAH. THESE THESE TWO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THE STAFF HEARING. AND IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME SPEAK ON THIS ITEM FROM THE PUBLIC? GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M BILL MINTER AND MY ROLE IS AS A VOLUNTEER VICE PRESIDENT OF ABILENE SQUARE, ABILENE HERITAGE SQUARE, INCORPORATED TO A TEXAS NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION. SO I'LL TRY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. IT IS IT IS KIND OF ODD THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S ALMOST AFTER THE FACT, BUT IT IN FACT, I'VE GOT A, [00:15:08] A VERY RECENT THIS IS FROM YESTERDAY MORNING VIA THE DRONE. IF I CAN GET YOU TO CIRCULATE THAT WITH THE COMMISSIONER. BUT THE I GUESS I WOULD START WITH WE MEETINGS HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR MANY YEARS. I MEAN, I WAS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ABILENE PRESERVATION LEAGUE AND STARTED IN MARCH OF 2006, AND RUBY PEREZ WAS MY PREDECESSOR AND GOING THROUGH HER FILES, THERE WERE BIG FAT FILE FOLDER WITH LINCOLN SAID LINCOLN ON IT. SO WE BEGAN TO, IT WAS ON THE RADAR SCREEN ALL THE WAY BACK THEN. QUESTIONS OF, YOU KNOW, MADE LOTS, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY A HUNDRED DIFFERENT PRESENTATIONS, ALL OUR BOARD MEMBERS THROUGH, THROUGH THE YEARS TO KIND OF EXAMINE WHAT SHOULD IT BE HOUSING. AND WE FOUND OUT THAT THE THE PUBLIC WANTED IT TO REMAIN A PUBLIC BUILDING WITH ACCESS TO IT. SO AND THEN THE, THE LIBRARY TO, TO CEDAR 1960, I THINK IS THE OFFICIAL DATE OF THAT. I REMEMBER IT WELL BECAUSE I WAS THERE AT THE RIBBON CUTTING. MY MOM WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE LIBRARY BOARD THAT AT THE TIME THE BOND ELECTION HAD HAD HELD AND WAS HELD AND IT PASSED. THE THIS YOU KNOW DIDN'T REQUIRE A BOND ELECTION BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S PRIVATELY FUNDED AND GENEROUS, GENEROUS DONORS, BUT I'M LOOKING AT MY 45 SECONDS LEFT, BUT THE REALLY THE, I WANTED TO EXPLAIN THE, THE SITING OF THE THE, THE, THIS ITEM WENT INTO THE PROGRAM FOR THE LIBRARY. OF COURSE, THE LIBRARY IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT, BIGGEST PART OF THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THAT PROPERTY, THE FORMER HIGH SCHOOL AND MIDDLE SCHOOL, THE AND IT WAS THE SAFETY WAS THE LIBRARY HAD HAS ONE IN THE ALLEY ON CEDAR STREET. SO THAT BECAME PART OF THE, WE NEEDED TO HAVE A DROP OFF, A BOOK DROP OFF. SO THE AND, BUT WE, BUT WE DID HAVE THAT YOU CAN HAVE MORE TIME. OH, OKAY. I WON'T TAKE MUCH MORE TIME, BUT THE, THE WE, IT BECAME PART OF THE PROGRAM. SO AND IT'S A DESIRABLE THING FOR THE PUBLIC. PUBLIC ASKED FOR IT AND WANTS IT NOW, YOU KNOW, AS WE BEGAN TO DEVELOP THE PROGRAM AND THROUGH, THROUGH ALL KINDS OF DELIBERATIONS, INCLUDING CHANGES OF ARCHITECTS AND CHANGES OF, OF ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS. WE SAID A DRIVE THROUGH, WE, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S MEETING AFTER MEETING AFTER MEETING, DRIVE THROUGH SHOULD BE ON THE SOUTH. IT SHOULD BE NEAR THE FRONT DOOR. NO. WE FINALLY REALIZED THAT THE DRIVE THROUGH SHOULD BE IN THE SAFEST PLACE THAT IT COULD BE, WHICH IS ON THE EAST SIDE. BECAUSE IF YOU'LL DRIVE BY AND LOOK THE, YOU KNOW, THE THE ENTRANCE ON THE WEST SIDE IS THE IS WHERE THE TRAFFIC IS GOING TO BE. IT'S WHERE THE SCHOOL BUSSES ARE GOING TO BE COMING BY. THE VEHICULAR TRAFFIC AND THE PARKING LOT. SO THIS IS GOING TO BE PRETTY MUCH AWAY FROM ALL KINDS OF VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. AND SO THAT THERE'S NOT MUCH CHANCE OF A CHILD BEING GETTING IN THE PATHWAY OF A CAR, DROPPING OFF A BOOK THERE. SO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S EXPLAINED. SO ALL OF THIS TOOK TIME AND IT DEFINITELY WASN'T PART OF THE STRATEGY. IN FACT OVER A YEAR AGO KIND OF AS THE I DON'T, I USED TO BE A HISTORIC PRESERVATION PROFESSIONAL, BUT WE WERE I THINK, YOU KNOW, I WAS SAYING WE NEED TO WE HAVE SOME THINGS TO TAKE CARE OF WITH THE CITY. AND ONE OF THEM WAS I WAS AWARE OF THE 19, THE 2011 SPECIAL WHAT SPECIAL ZONING OVERLAY THAT IT HAD AND IT, IT SAID, NO, NONE OF THESE AND A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS. SO WE DID TAKE STARTED IN JUNE OF LAST YEAR TO TALK TO PLANNING AND ZONING AND THE COUNCIL TO CHANGE THAT. AND SO THAT WAS DONE. THAT TOOK SEVERAL MONTHS AND FINALLY WAS, I GUESS, APPROVED IN OCTOBER, [00:20:06] I BELIEVE. SO. BUT ANYWAY, JUST I GUESS THAT THAT IS, BUT I THINK YOU'LL BE PLEASED WITH THE OUTCOME AND SITUATION WAS PRETTY UNUSUAL TO IT'S BEEN A LONG ROAD OVER 20 YEARS. SO AND I THINK EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BE HAPPY WITH THE RESULT. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. MINTER? COULD YOU NOT DO A DROP OFF BOX VERSUS ADDING A DRIVE THROUGH? THAT WAS DISCUSSED BY, I MEAN, IN THE LIBRARIES LIBRARIANS. IT, YOU KNOW, DROP OFF BOX IS VULNERABLE TO BEING HIT AND, AND SO FORTH. BUT THE, WE FELT LIKE THE, THIS PARTICULAR VERSION OF WITH, WITH A CANOPY AND JUST REPLACING ONE OF THE BAYS OF THE WINDOWS WITH A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT THING SO THAT IT COULD BE OPENING THE, THE STAFF CAN TAKE THE BOOK IMMEDIATELY AND, AND, AND GO PROCESS. PROCESS IT. SO. SO. BUT WE DID. WE DEFINITELY A TELLER WINDOW. WILL IT. WILL IT TELESCOPE OUT. YEAH. I THINK THERE'S A IT'S PROBABLY A GRAVITY FED. LIKE A DROP SLOT TYPE. YEAH. YEAH. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT HAS A TELLER WINDOW. SO BILL, BILL, THANK YOU FOR THAT EXPLANATION. I JUST TO UNDERSTAND THE TIMELINE, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND OUR END PROCEDURALLY. SO WAS THIS LOCATION DETERMINED AFTER CONSTRUCTION HAD COMMENCED ON SABLAN SQUARE? IT WAS ALL A PART OF THE DESIGN PROCESS. YEAH, I IT REALLY, I, I THINK ONCE, ONCE THAT WAS THE THING ABOUT HAVING BASICALLY IN THE SITE PLAN AREA, I GUESS THAT IT NEEDED TO BE ON THE EAST SIDE BECAUSE THAT WAS WHERE THE VEHICULAR TRAFFIC WOULD BE THE MINIMAL THERE. SO AND THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE WALKING INTO THE LIBRARY FROM THE WEST, THE BOOK DROP WILL BE NEAR THE CIRCULATION DESK THERE. BUT BUT REALLY SAFETY OF PEDESTRIAN IS, IS THE MAIN THING. SO TIMING WISE, THE YOU KNOW, WE. I DON'T KNOW, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY IT'S IT'S HARD TO SAY, BUT IT'S PROBABLY BEEN, YOU KNOW, THAT IT WAS ON THE EAST. BUT I THINK THE STAFF DID NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH, WITH THE THE EXPLANATION THAT IT NEEDED TO BE IN THE SAFEST PLACE BECAUSE I GUARANTEE YOU THAT WE HAD HOURS OF MEETINGS ABOUT THIS AND ALL THE OTHER ISSUES. WHO APPROVED THE BUILDING MATERIALS FOR THE COVERING BECAUSE IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE BUILDING. THE BUILDING STYLE. THE TIME PERIOD. IT LITERALLY DOESN'T LOOK COHESIVE WITH THE BUILDING. SO WHO APPROVED THE BUILDING MATERIALS? AND IT WAS, IT WOULD BE OUR OUR 2029 PERSON BOARD AND, AND RECOMMENDED BY THE ARCHITECTS. BUT IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, BASICALLY I'VE STUDIED THE SECRETARY STANDARDS AND GENERALLY THEY SAY YOU NEED TO HAVE A CONTRAST IF YOU'RE PUTTING SOMETHING NEW IN THERE. AND THE OTHER THING IS THAT IF, IF IT SHOULD EVER HAVE A DIFFERENT PURPOSE THIS PROPERTY, CAN IT BE REMOVED? SO I DO FEEL LIKE IT MEETS THE SECRETARY'S STANDARDS IN EVERY WAY THE THERE IS EXISTING, THERE'S A CANOPY THAT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THAT OVER ONE OF THE I THINK IT'S THE, IT WAS THE SHOP INDUSTRIAL ARTS BUILDING THERE. AND SO IT DATES FROM, AND IT'S IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, TODAY'S CONSTRUCTION, YOU CAN SEE EXAMPLES EVERYWHERE ON, ON EVERY HISTORIC BUILDING THAT, THAT HAS SOME KIND OF ADAPTIVE REUSE. WE OUR, OUR GOAL WAS NOT COMPLETE RESTORATION. YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S A SEPARATE TYPE OF ACTIVITY THAN WHAT WE WERE DOING. THIS IS A REPURPOSING. AND AND SO YOU, YOU, THAT WAY YOU, YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT SOME KIND OF [00:25:03] LIMESTONE ORNAMENTED THING THAT NEVER EXISTED THERE, THAT WOULD BE IN KEEPING, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, IF WE FIDDLE WITH IT ENOUGH, IT MIGHT BE IN KEEPING WITH SOMETHING, BUT I THINK, I THINK THE THE PHOTOGRAPH I CIRCULATED REALLY PROVES THAT THE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, IT IS YOU KNOW, IT, YOU REALLY IT, IT DOES NOT. THERE WILL BE SOME SIGNAGE THERE, OF COURSE, BUT IT IS NOT REALLY TAKING AWAY FROM THE BUILDING IT'S WORKING WITH WHAT'S THERE. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE AWNING, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY JUST TOOK OUT THE WINDOW BAY AREA. YOU DIDN'T CUT ANY OF THE MASONRY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T BELIEVE SO. I THE NO, I THINK THAT WAS, THAT WAS ATTACHED AND REALLY TRIED TO MINIMIZE. WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW THE LINBECK GROUP HAS DONE A LOT OF HISTORIC WORK AND, AND THEY'VE BEEN VERY SENSITIVE TO EVERYTHING THAT, IN OUR VENTURE HERE. SO. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR.. SO THE LOCATION. SORRY. THE LOCATION. YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE WORRIED ABOUT CHILD SAFETY AND, LIKE, NOBODY GETTING HIT. I FORGOT HOW YOU PHRASED IT, SO I APOLOGIZE. BUT DOESN'T IT RUN A BIGGER RISK BECAUSE YOU HAVE A WINDOW THERE, AND THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE PARENTS THAT ARE LIKE ON THE PHONE, DISTRACTED, TALKING AND NOT PAYING ATTENTION, AND IT'S RIGHT BY A DOOR. WOULD THAT NOT POSE A BIGGER RISK? THAT DOOR IS NOT GOING TO BE A BIG POINT OF EGRESS. IT'S GOING ON THE NORTH. THE HISTORIC ENTRANCE TO THE SCHOOL IN THE WEST IS GOING TO BE WHERE WHERE MOST WILL BE. SO THAT WAS THAT WAS A BIG CONSIDERATION. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE SPARK SCIENCE CENTER IS A WHOLE NOTHER WORLD OVER THERE. AND IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE HAVE KIDS EVERYWHERE AND COMING OUT OF SCHOOL BUSSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT I SEE YOUR POINT. BUT IT IS. THERE WILL BE THE CURBING AND WILL WILL KEEP THE VEHICULAR TRAFFIC AWAY FROM ANYBODY GOING THROUGH THAT DOOR. OKAY, SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A CURB WHERE THE WHERE THE DIRT IS DIFFERENT. THESE PICTURES THAT THE STAFF TOOK, IT DOESN'T SHOW THAT, BUT IT DOES SHOW THAT IN THAT THAT WAS TAKEN YESTERDAY MORNING BY A DRONE FROM ACROSS ACROSS THE STREET. DID YOU SEE THAT? I DID, IT'S STILL JUST POSES A CONCERN BECAUSE IT'S STILL AN ACCESS POINT. CORRECT. AND THERE ARE PARKING SPOTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE CLOSE. AND DO YOU ALL HAVE AN IDEA OF THE INFLUX OF TRAFFIC THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE EXPECTING, LIKE A PROJECTION OF VISITS? IT WILL BE THERE WILL BE A SERVICE AREA. MOST OF THE PARKING IS GOING TO BE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE WHOLE BUILDING, A LITTLE BIT ON THE NORTH. I'M JUST I'M REALLY NOT AWARE OF. WE HAVE NEVER PLANNED THIS EAST SIDE TO HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PARKING, BUT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DISCUSSION. ONE THING I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT, AND BRANDON MAY WANT TO SPEAK ON THIS JUST REAL QUICK. SO IN LOTS OF ADAPTIVE REUSE, HISTORIC PRESERVATION ON PURPOSE, THE ARCHITECTS MAKE SURE THAT ADDITIONS DO NOT LOOK LIKE THE HISTORIC BUILDING SO THAT PEOPLE CAN CLEARLY SEE WHAT WAS HISTORIC AND WHAT WAS NOT. SO THERE'S KIND OF TWO CAMPS IN HISTORIC PRESERVATION ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S A HUGE WELL KIND OF TENET OF SOME HISTORIC PRESERVATION. SO THIS ONE IS CLEARLY YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S NOT HISTORIC, AND YOU CAN TELL THAT WHEN IT WAS REDONE THAT THAT WAS ADDED. SO, BRANDON, DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT JUST FOR TWO SECONDS? WELL, I MEAN, YOU'RE YOU'RE CORRECT. AND TO BILL'S POINT TOO, AND I DID GO OUT THERE AND LOOK AT THIS. YOU KNOW, IF AT SOME POINT LATER ALL OF THAT CAN BE REMOVED AND THE WINDOWS REPLACED AND YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW ANY DIFFERENT. SO TO THAT POINT, IT'S THAT'S ALSO ACCEPTABLE. I GUESS MY QUESTION ON THIS, AND THIS PREDATES MY TIME AS A COMMISSIONER, BUT DID PORTIONS OF THIS PROJECT COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL IN THE PAST? BECAUSE I'M JUST MORE CURIOUS ON OUR END ABOUT HOW THIS IS COMING TO US NOW INSTEAD OF AT A PREFERABLE TIME. [00:30:02] THE ONLY THING THAT I REMEMBER IS WE. WHEN THIS WAS GIVEN TO THE CITY, THE BUILDING WE APPROVED A PLAN DEVELOPMENT. HOW DO YOU CALL IT? A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT? YES. AND WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT. WE DIDN'T PUT PURE HISTORIC OVERLAY. THE GROUPS THAT HAVE WORKED ON THIS BUILDING, I REALLY ADMIRE IT HAS TAKEN A LONG TIME. AND THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THOSE COMMITTEES HAVE JUST KIND OF FIZZLED OUT. IT TOOK SO LONG AND THERE'S BEEN A BIG OVERTURN. SOME OF THE PEOPLE HAVE TIRELESSLY WORKED ON THIS FOR YEARS. AND IT HAD A LOT OF REVIEWS, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, BY THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. SO A LOT OF PLANS HAD TO BE APPROVED. AND, AND THAT TOOK A LOT OF TIME. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, ONE MORE THING THAT BECAUSE YOU'VE MENTIONED, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP THAT THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION WE DID APPLY AND THERE WAS A LOT OF ENERGY EXPENDED IN FOR HISTORIC TAX CREDITS THROUGH THEIR, THEIR PROGRAM. THE ADVICE CAME BACK THAT THERE WAS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUE ABOUT HOW THE LIBRARY BUILDING WOULD BE SITED AND THE HEIGHT OF IT THAT THE THC GOT STUCK ON AND THEY HAVE SEEN DRAWINGS FOR, YOU KNOW, HAVING THIS ON THE EAST AND, AND THEY'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE MATERIAL BECAUSE IT WENT THROUGH A COMPLETE REVIEW FOR THAT BEFORE THEY WROTE A LETTER AND SAID, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DON'T THINK UNLESS YOU'RE WILLING TO BUY THAT, UNLESS YOU'RE WILLING TO PRETTY MUCH SEPARATE THE LIBRARY BUILDING FROM THE REST OF IT. AND, AND THAT WAS JUST CONTRARY TO THE WHOLE PHILOSOPHY THAT WE HAD BEEN OPERATING WITH SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING, THAT IT SHOULD BE THE BEST LIBRARY WE COULD MAKE IT. WE HAD CONSULTANTS THAT WE HIRED TO TRY TO PLEASE THE THC, THE YOU KNOW, WE WOUND, YOU KNOW, WE KEPT HAVING TO SAY, WELL, IF YOU CONSIDER PUTTING PART OF THE LIBRARY UNDERGROUND, YOU KNOW, AND SOME OF THE PASSAGEWAYS, IT'S LIKE JUST BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE THE WINDOWS OF THE HISTORIC AUDITORIUM ON THE WEST SINCE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS DAVID CASTLE HAD DRAWINGS TO BUILD ANOTHER WING ON THE WEST OF THAT. BUT THE DEPRESSION INTERVENED SO THAT THAT WING WAS NEVER BUILT. IF THAT WING HAD BEEN BUILT, YOU WOULD NOT, NOT BE ABLE NO ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THE THE WINDOWS OF THE WEST WINDOWS OF THE AUDITORIUM FROM SOUTH FIRST STREET, WHICH IS WHAT THC KIND OF GOT HUNG UP ON. SO BUT THEY HAVE SEEN A COMPLETE REVIEW, YOU KNOW, WITH MATERIALS AND ALL THAT STUFF. AND WE WERE VERY FOCUSED ON THAT FOR QUITE A WHILE BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN AND THE COST. BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO WEIGH ALL THOSE THINGS AND, AND, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AS PROBABLY THE PERSON ON OUR BOARD WHO IS MORE FAMILIAR WITH I WORKED FOR A CONSULTING FIRM OUT OF SAN ANTONIO ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND LOOKED AT A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS AROUND THE STATE. IT WAS A LOT OF FUN. LEARNED. LEARNED A WHOLE LOT. BUT BUT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE WERE SAYING THE TO TRY TO TRY TO YOU CAN USE MODERN MATERIALS IN A, IN A, IN A RESTORATION MAYBE NOT, BUT IN, IN A KIND OF A RECREATION OR A REPURPOSING OF A HISTORIC PROPERTY. THAT'S WHAT WE DID. SO. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. EXCUSE ME. WE NEED TO GET A COPY OF MR. MINTER'S PHOTO BEFORE YOU LEAVE. WE NEED TO GET A COPY OF THE PHOTO. SO FOR THE RECORD, THAT HE THAT HE SHOWED US. YES. OKAY. SO I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. OKAY. LET'S. SO I'M CLOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING COMPLETELY AGAIN AND DISCUSSION AMONG THE COMMISSION. DO WE NOT HOLD RESIDENTS AND OTHER BUSINESS OWNERS TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD? [00:35:04] I MEAN, BECAUSE IF WE APPROVE THIS, THEN EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE WE'RE SAYING, OH, WELL, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY DONE, IT'S OKAY. AND THAT'S NOT OKAY BECAUSE OUR RESIDENTS THAT LIVE HERE AND, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAD TO TEAR THE HOUSE DOWN, BUT IT'S THE SAME STANDARD THAT'S APPLIED TO EVERYONE. AND IT'S NOT OKAY BECAUSE, I MEAN, WE'VE SAT HERE, WE GO THROUGH CARRIAGE HOUSES, WE GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, PORTA CACHÉS AWNINGS, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND WE ARE VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT THE MATERIAL, THE INTEGRITY AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S RIGHT THAT WE WOULD JUST SAY, OH, WELL, BECAUSE IT'S DONE, THEN WE'RE GOING TO LET IT PASS BECAUSE THAT IS INCONSISTENCY WITH THE BOARD. AND THAT'S NOT OKAY WITH ME. I WOULD HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ABOUT THIS THAT WE WOULDN'T APPROVE IF IT HAD COME BEFORE. I THINK THERE IS. IF THAT WERE TO BE THE CASE AND WE HAVEN'T APPROVED IT YET. BUT IF THAT WERE TO BE THE CASE, THEN IF SOMEBODY CAME, WE WOULD SIMPLY TELL THEM TO UNDO IT AND PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS. THAT'S THE PUNISHMENT FOR IT. SO UNLESS THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULDN'T APPROVE, WOULD NOT HAVE APPROVED SIX MONTHS AGO. I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS THE SITUATION TO. YOU KNOW, HOLD SOMEBODY ACCOUNTABLE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY MISSED A DEADLINE. IF OTHERWISE WE WOULD HAVE APPROVED IT. JUST I PERSONALLY TAKE COMFORT IN THAT. I KNOW THAT THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION THAT PERSONALLY KNOWS MUCH MORE ABOUT HISTORIC PRESERVATION THAN I DO, HAS CAREFULLY REVIEWED THE PLANS FOR THIS BUILDING AND IT PASSED THEM. I'M NOT REALLY SURE. I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHY WE ARE HAVING TO REVIEW THIS. MAYBE STAFF CAN TELL US BECAUSE IT WAS APPROVED BY THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. SO LET ME ELABORATE ON THAT. SO THE PROPERTY DOESN'T HAVE HISTORIC OVERLAY, RIGHT. IT'S IN A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT. SO WHAT A PLAN DEVELOPMENT IS FOR ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T KNOW IS IT'S A ZONING DISTRICT THAT BASICALLY YOU MAKE YOUR OWN RULES AND YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW YOUR OWN RULES. SO IN THE ORDINANCE THAT THEY DID IN 2011 THEY HAD SPECIFIC THINGS THAT THEY WANTED TO COME TO THE COMMISSION ON RELATIVE TO CHANGING ANY FACADES OR COVERING ANY WINDOWS OR ANY DEMOLITION OR ANY LIKE SIGNAGE ANY SIGNAGE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT ALL NEEDED TO GET APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION. SO IT'S CORRECT IN THE MATTER THAT NONE OF THIS WAS TAKEN BEFORE Y'ALL, BECAUSE TECHNICALLY THERE HASN'T BEEN A CHANGE IN THE FACADE UNTIL THIS AND I RESPECTFULLY THINK THAT THEY KIND OF DID THE WHOLE CART BEFORE THE HORSE THING WITH THIS ONE. BECAUSE THERE IT WAS MENTIONED THAT STAFF HAD SEEN THIS AND SAID, OKAY, THAT'S NOT THE CASE. STAFF SAW IT AND SAID, YOU HAVE TO GO TO LANDMARKS, YOU NEED TO AMEND YOUR PLAN DEVELOPMENT. AND SO ALL OF THAT STUFF WAS STARTED LAST YEAR. THAT BEING SAID. YES, THIS SHOULD HAVE CAME TO Y'ALL BEFORE THEN FOR, FOR THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY. NONE OF THE OTHER STUFF, ALL THAT STUFF WAS DONE FOR WHATEVER THEY GOT APPROVED WITH THE TEXAS HISTORIC COMMISSION, AND ALL OF THEIR PLANS WERE APPROVED THROUGH REVIEWS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THIS IS THE FIRST INSTANCE THAT IT WAS A CHANGE THAT IS WRITTEN OUT THAT NEEDED TO COME TO YOU GUYS. OKAY. OKAY. AND JUST BILL MINTER HAS BEEN HERE AT THE LAST TWO MEETINGS, WE DIDN'T HAVE A QUORUM LAST TIME, AND HE AND A LARGER GROUP THAT WAS GOING TO TALK TO US ABOUT THIS WINDOW ACTUALLY SHOWED UP DURING THE SNOWSTORM, THE ICE STORM, THEY WERE HERE, THEY CAME TO THE BUILDING AND IT WAS CLOSED. SO ANYWAY, THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO THEY'VE BEEN AT THE LAST TWO MEETINGS. SO ISN'T IT MORE ABOUT EFFICACY OF THE BOARD? I MEAN, BECAUSE I GO BACK TO THAT, NOT LIKE I GET IT CART BEFORE THE HORSE. WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. BUT IF WE GIVE ON ONE INSTANCE, THAT MEANS THAT WE NEED TO DO IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE. BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT MAKES US LIKE WE'VE DONE SIMILAR THINGS, NOT CREDIBLE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE BECAUSE LITERALLY BECAUSE, OH, WE'RE GOING TO JUST MAKE OUR OWN RULES AND GO BY WHAT WE GO BY. BECAUSE YOU SAID, WHAT IF SOMEBODY HAD DONE IT AT A HOUSE. RIGHT. WE'VE HAD WE'VE HAD STUFF LIKE THIS HAPPEN. WE WE HAVE HAD THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN WITH INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES. THAT THEY DID DO WORK BEFORE THROUGH THE YEARS AND WE HAVE APPROVED IT. [00:40:04] SO I DON'T JUST TO PUT MY $0.02 IN, I MEAN, I, I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I DO AGREE WITH YOU TO AN EXTENT. I WOULDN'T HAVE VOTED TO APPROVE THAT OTHER ONE IF I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, OKAY TO DO SO NOW ON THIS ONE. PERSONALLY, I DON'T SEE I WOULD I AGAIN WOULD STILL APPROVE THIS HAD IT COME BEFOREHAND. SO REGARDLESS OF THE, I DO THINK IT'S THEY PROBABLY COULD HAVE BROUGHT THIS SIX MONTHS AGO, HONESTLY, BUT BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT I WASN'T FOLLOWING THAT PROJECT TIMELINE AND HAVE NO IDEA. AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY TRIED AT LEAST TWO MONTHS AGO AND MAYBE THE SITE WORK HADN'T BEEN DONE YET AND THE WINDOWS HADN'T BEEN DONE, BUT I THINK THAT THEY PROBABLY HAD THIS INFORMATION FAR BEFORE. YOU KNOW, AND COULD HAVE BROUGHT THIS. BUT I STILL THINK AT THIS POINT IT CAN BE UNDONE. AND THAT IT FITS WITHIN THE FUNCTION OF THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING, WHAT IT'S BEING USED FOR NOW. SO I'LL JUST GO BACK TO LIKE T AND P WHEN THEY WANTED TO EXTEND THE PORCH OR ADD A COVERING, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND EVERYBODY WAS LIKE, NO, OR HALF THE BOARD. I DON'T REMEMBER HOW IT ENDED, BUT IT WAS SO LIKE, WE'RE GOING TO DRIVE HOME. AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THAT THE STANDARD, THEN MAKE IT THE STANDARD ACROSS THE BOARD. I AGREE. I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS A WELL, THE ALTERNATIVE IS THAT WE HAVE THEM RIP THAT OUT AND THEN BRING IT BACK TO US AND POSSIBLY REBUILD THE SAME THING. ARE WE WILLING TO DO THAT AND WASTE WASTE. THEIR TIME AND MONEY. SO IF SOMEONE HAS A MOTION TO PUT FORWARD I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING. THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS TO ADD A DRIVE THROUGH WINDOW. SO Y'ALL NEED TO SAY YES OR NO TO THE DRIVE THROUGH WINDOW. AND THEN IF Y'ALL THROW MATERIAL STUFF ON, THAT'S ON Y'ALL, BUT, AND PER THE PD, Y'ALL HAVE TO SAY YES OR NO TO THE DRIVE THROUGH WINDOW. IS THAT INCLUDING THE CANOPY? CAN I JUST SAY ONE LAST THING? IS THAT JUST THE WINDOW, OR IS THAT THE CANOPY? OKAY, IF YOU YOU HAVE TO COME UP HERE. OKAY. JUST WE'LL REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING REAL QUICK. YOU GOT OVER AN $80 MILLION PROJECT. AND WE HAVE HAD ARGUMENTS LAUGHTER MEETINGS. WE MET EVERY MONDAY. THERE'S ALL KINDS OF OTHER GROUPS WORKING ON IT THAT, YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN TO, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH LOOKED AT BECAUSE OF MY PREVIOUS CAREER AS THE ONE WHO'S GOING TO ALERT THEM ABOUT THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, NEEDED TO COME BEFORE YOUR GROUP. I TOTALLY AGREE. I THINK IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE TAPE DEPOT THERE. THAT WAS, THAT WAS A GOOD THING THAT, YOU KNOW, FLOATED THE DESIGN AND, AND STUFF BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, SEEMS TO HAVE HAD SOME PROBLEMS. BUT ANYWAY, SO I'M JUST SAYING THIS IS, YOU KNOW WITH ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT'S JUST KEEPING, YOU KNOW, THE VANDALS OUT, STARTING WITH KEEPING THE VANDALS OUT OF THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST REMEMBER THAT THE DRIVE IN WINDOW IS NOT THE TOP OF OUR LIST ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION. KEEPING THE BUILDING FROM BEING TORN DOWN WAS THE TOP OF OUR LIST ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION. SO THANK YOU. AND PLEASE THINK ABOUT THAT AS YOU GO. THANK YOU. OKAY. I HAVE A MOTION TO MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT BEFORE WE MAKE A MOTION. I JUST THINK IT BECAUSE I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. I THINK COMMISSIONER PARTAIN BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT ABOUT WHAT KIND OF PRECEDENT WE SET. I ALSO THINK COMMISSIONER BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT IS THAT, WELL, IF WE WERE TO REVIEW THIS, REALLY OUR CHARGE IS WHAT'S APPROPRIATE AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED WHAT'S APPROPRIATE? AND SO THIS WORK'S BEEN COMPLETED AND IT'S APPROPRIATE TO BILL'S LAST POINT. AND I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE TO TAKE IN CONTEXT BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PROJECT THAT'S A CIVIC AND SOCIAL GOOD THAT'S MUCH GREATER THAN AN INDIVIDUAL. SO I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT INTO ACCOUNT, RIGHT? I MEAN, PART OF OUR JURISDICTION HERE, RIGHT? WE'RE LOOKING AT GRANULAR ITEMS FOR APPROPRIATENESS, BUT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT MUCH LARGER ITEMS. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SIGNIFICANT ARCHITECTURAL STRUCTURE IN OUR URBAN FABRIC THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TIME AND ENERGY AND EFFORT THAT'S BEEN PUT INTO THAT. THIS APPROVAL PROCESS WAS NOT DIDN'T GO HOW IT NEEDED TO GO. I THINK WE ALL CAN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT. BUT ALSO IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S NOT HISTORIC OVERLAY. SO NOW WE'RE DEALING WITH A PD. AND THE RULES THAT THEY CREATED FOR THEMSELVES WEREN'T EXACTLY FOLLOWED. SO I GET ALL THAT. BUT I DO THINK I CAN SORT OF ZOOM OUT ON THIS AND SORT OF SAY, OKAY, THROUGH THE LENS WITH WHICH THIS IS A, [00:45:06] A GOOD FOR OUR CITY. I THINK THAT'S HOW WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THIS PARTICULAR REQUEST. SO I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE ADDITION OF A DRIVE THROUGH WINDOW AND CANOPY AT ABILENE HERITAGE SQUARE, AND I. SECOND. MR. YOUNG YES. MR.. HAWKER. YES. MR.. YES. MR.. HOOD. YES. MISS ALLEN. YES. MISS MARTIN? NO. AND MISS LEE. YES. AND THE MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. BILL. OKAY, THE NEXT ITEM. C A 2026 ZERO TWO. [4. CA-2026-02: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on A Request for Certificate of Appropriateness to Add a Sign for the Beauty Bus Located at 642 Sayles Boulevard] RECEIVE A REPORT, HOLD A DISCUSSION AND PUBLIC HEARING, AND TAKE ACTION ON A REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ADD A SIGN FOR THE BEAUTY BUS LOCATED AT 642 SAILS BOULEVARD. CAN WE HAVE STAFF REPORT, PLEASE? GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS KIARA, PLANNER FOR THE CITY. I'M REPRESENTING CASE C A 2026 OH TWO. THE OWNER IS SARAH TRAMMELL. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. TO ADD A SIGN FOR THE BEAUTY BUS. THE HENRY SALES HOME WAS BUILT IN 1889. IS A TWO STORY RESIDENCE, GENERALLY CLASSIFIED AS VICTORIAN IN STYLE BUT ENCOMPASSING ELEMENTS OF THE QUEEN ANNE STYLE. THE HOME INCLUDES PRONOUNCED DETAILING ON GABLES, CORNICE, DORMER AND PORCH WITH A HALF LARGE HALF CIRCLE WINDOW ON THE FRONT GABLE. THE HENRY SALES HOME WAS THE FIRST LOCAL HOUSE ACCEPTED FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES. THE PROPERTY WAS REZONED IN 2023 FROM RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY WITH HISTORIC OVERLAY TO A PLAN DEVELOPED DISTRICT TO ALLOW A MEDICAL SPA. HERE WE HAVE THE LOCATION MAP. THE AERIAL MAP. EXCUSE ME. THANK YOU. THE ZONING MAP. HERE ARE VIEWS OF THE PROPERTY SHOWING THE SIGN. FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS REVIEWED PURSUANT TO THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR THE REHABILITATION OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS. THE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST. I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SO THIS SIGN HAS BEEN INSTALLED. WE ARE ON A ROLL TODAY. SO THIS WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED UNDER THE WRONG ADDRESS BACK IN FEBRUARY ROUGHLY FEBRUARY OF 25. IT WAS NEVER RESUBMITTED UNDER THE CORRECT ADDRESS AND NEVER SUBMITTED AT THAT TIME FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THERE IS ALSO A CURRENT CODE CASE FOR THIS BECAUSE OF THE SIGN WITHOUT PERMITS OR APPROVAL FROM THE LANDMARKS. OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? YOU KIND OF FLASHED OVER THAT SIGN. CAN YOU PUT THAT BACK UP THERE? OKAY, SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON. OKAY. AND THIS IS AGAIN, IF THE LANDMARKS DOESN'T PROVE IT, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED. OKAY. WILL YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOU SAID IT WAS REZONED IN 2023 FOR PD. YES, SIR. IT'S A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT. IT STILL HAS THE RS. BELIEVE RS 12 WITH THE HISTORIC OVERLAY. AND THEY JUST ADDED THE USE FOR THE MEDICAL SPA SO THAT IT COULD BE COMMERCIAL COMMERCIALLY USED. JUST FOR ALLOWING THE PERMITTED USE. THAT'S THE ONLY CHANGE THEY MADE TO IT. SO IT STILL KEEPS THE RESIDENTIAL ZONING, BUT THEY ALLOW THE ONE USE OF A MEDICAL SPA WITHIN THE WHOLE RESIDENTIAL ZONING. OKAY, SO IT'S STILL IT'S STILL IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY. YES. SO IT HAS DUAL ZONING? YEAH. KIND OF. SO HISTORIC OVERLAY IS KIND OF ADDED TO THE ZONING. SO ON THIS ONE, WE, WE DID KEEP THE RS 12 BASED ZONING WITH HISTORIC OVERLAY. SO TECHNICALLY IT'S PLAN DEVELOPMENT WITH HISTORIC OVERLAY. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. WE WILL CLOSE THE STAFF PRESENTATION AND INVITE. IF ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC IS HERE TO SPEAK. COME AND TO THE PODIUM THE WRONG DAY. IT'S ALL THE OOPS, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING TODAY. YES. SO MY NAME IS SARAH TRAMMELL. I'M THE OWNER OF THE ABILENE BEAUTY BUS. I HAVE A LITTLE PTSD FROM THIS ROOM FROM TWO YEARS AGO OF GETTING THE ABILITY TO ACTUALLY CHANGE IT FROM A PURELY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY INTO SOMETHING THAT WE COULD USE UNDER A COMMERCIAL BASIS. BUT I DID NOT KNOW THE I DO NOT KNOW THE RULES, UNFORTUNATELY. I WISH SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE GIVEN US A CLASS. WHEN YOU OWN WHEN YOU BECOME AN OWNER OF A HISTORICAL PROPERTY, I THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING GREAT TO HAVE, BUT I ASSUME ASSUMED, WHICH WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT WORD REALLY MEANS, [00:50:07] THAT WHEN IT BECAME ABILITY TO BE COMMERCIAL, THAT A SIGN COULD BE PLACED. I DID THE RESEARCH ON THE SIZE OF THE SIGN. I'VE LOOKED AT ACTUALLY A COUPLE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT HAD SIMILAR USAGES OF BEING HOMES THAT HAD BEEN TURNED INTO COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES AND TRIED TO KIND OF USE THAT SAME STYLE. THE PAINT ON THE SIGN WAS MATCHED. THE WHITE PAINT. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT IN THAT PICTURE. THE LIGHT LOOKS VERY BRIGHT IN THAT PICTURE FROM THE SUN, BUT THEY MATCHED THE WHITE THAT WAS ON THE HOUSE. IT WAS DONE BY EXTREME EXTERIORS. THIS WASN'T JUST SOMETHING WE THREW UP ON THE WEEKEND. SO IT'S IN THE GROUND WITH CEMENT, BUT WE CAN TAKE IT DOWN IF WE NEED TO. AND SO ANYWAY, THAT'S THE STORY OF THAT SIGN. I, I TOOK A PICTURE OF IT AGAIN THIS MORNING. FROM THAT ANGLE, IT LOOKS GIGANTIC. IT'S REALLY NOT THAT LARGE IN COMPARISON. I THINK IT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO STAND SO MUCH CLOSE TO IT FROM THE BEFORE YOU GET INTO THE STREET, BUT I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. I DO APOLOGIZE THAT IT WAS A SECONDARY THING TO PUT BEFORE YOU GUYS. THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT I HAD BEEN EDUCATED UPON. I DID REACH OUT TO THEM WHEN A YEAR AGO AND DID NOT RECEIVE ANYTHING TELLING ME KIND OF WHAT THE NEXT STEPS WERE. SO IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE THIS HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED. AND I HONESTLY COULD NOT FIND THE EMAIL TODAY, BUT I DID CONTACT THEM LAST FEBRUARY AND THEN DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE CITY. AND SO I ASSUMED AT THAT POINT, AGAIN, ASSUMPTION THAT ALL WAS WELL, BUT I WILL BE HAPPY TO DO WHATEVER YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE US TO DO. SO ANY, ANY QUESTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS FOR DOCTOR TERM? JUST A COMMENT. I THINK YOU DID THE RIGHT THING BY NOT ATTACHING IT TO THE HOUSE OR DOING ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO JUST, YOU KNOW, DAMAGE THE PROPERTY. SO I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT I WISH THE COLOR WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE DRAB, YOU KNOW, TO MATCH THE HOUSE THAT I SEE. I'M JOKING. LIKE NOT JUST THE PILLARS. THAT WAS KIND OF WHAT WE WERE GOING FOR. ANY ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY. WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION. AND HERE WE ARE ON A ROLL. WE ARE MAKING OUR OPTIONS TO THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE IN ALREADY DONE. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THROUGH THE YEARS THAT WE HAVE DONE THIS TYPE OF THING. I GUARANTEE YOU, THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT THE SIGN THAT I THINK PERSONALLY THAT AFFECTS THE, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORIC OVERLAY FOR THE HOUSE. I MEAN, UNLESS YOU GUYS SAY OTHERWISE. BUT I DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S ANY REASON WHY. OR I GUESS I'M ASKING. I DON'T SEE ANY REASON OR I DON'T SEE THAT IT AFFECTED THE HISTORICAL PART OF THE PROPERTY. RIGHT. THEY DIDN'T PUT IT ON THE HOUSE. IT'S IN THE YARD. I MEAN, DO YOU ALL SEE ANYTHING THAT. YEAH, I AGREE. I THINK IT FALLS UNDER THAT REZONING THAT WAS IT WAS PLACED UNDER IN 2023. IT'S NOT A VICTORIAN SIGN. OH MY GOSH. NO. HE'S HE'S JOKING. HE'S JOKING. YOU KNOW, REALLY NICE LOOKING. SO I'M KIND OF THIS IS THIS IS MAYBE. SALIENT TO THIS CONVERSATION. BUT AND I KNOW WE HAVE SOME HISTORIC PROPERTY OWNERS PERHAPS ON THE COMMISSION AS WELL, BUT I'M CURIOUS FOR AN OWNER THAT HAS A PROPERTY LIKE THIS THAT WANTS TO DO THINGS LIKE WHAT, WHAT ARE IS IT ON THEM, I GUESS TO GET THE GUIDELINES? THERE'S NOTHING THERE'S NOTHING HANDED OUT WHEN YOU BUY ONE OF THESE. RIGHT? SO IT'S, THERE IS A BIT OF A RESEARCH THAT HAS TO GO ON. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY QUESTION IS THERE MORE OR LESS, MAYBE IT'S ON US TO SORT OF EDUCATE OR EQUIP. AS I WOULD SEE A BUNCH OF THESE KIND OF THINGS HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUST, I MEAN, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SIGN, THE SIGN IS DETACHED. SO YOU'RE NOT REALLY THINKING ABOUT LIKE HOW THAT'S IMPACTING A HISTORIC HOME BECAUSE HONESTLY, YOU CAN PULL IT UP AND IT NEVER EXISTED, RIGHT? SO I MEAN, THIS OF ALL THINGS WOULD BE THE LOWEST HANGING FRUIT. OF COURSE, WE'VE TRIED TO BE MORE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT. I DO BELIEVE APPLICANTS NOW GET A WHOLE PACKET. IS THAT CORRECT ABOUT WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE? BUT DOCTOR TRAMMELL DID NOT PUT HISTORIC OVERLAY ON THIS. IT WAS DONE A PREVIOUS OWNER. SO SHE MAY SO THAT'S NOT TRANSFER WHATEVER. AND WE MAY YOU KNOW, PEOPLE BUY HISTORIC HOUSES IN TOWN. AND SO THE NEXT OWNER MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN HAVE BEEN GIVEN THAT PACKET, BUT THE REALTOR [00:55:10] EDUCATES THEM. YEAH. YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A BIG CASE THAT CAME UP HAD A LOT TO DO WITH LANDMARKS, AND WE'VE. WE TRIED TO BE MUCH MORE CAREFUL ABOUT TELLING OWNERS. AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, THEY'RE GIVEN QUITE A LARGE PACKET THAT TELLS THEM THE GUIDELINES NOW. I HOPE THAT'S STILL THE CASE BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME YEARS AGO THAT. BUT THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. THAT'S WHEN THEY ACTUALLY APPLY. THAT'S RIGHT. NOT WHEN THEY PURCHASE SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE. THAT'S RIGHT. WE MAY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. IT'S AVAILABLE FROM THE CITY LIKE THEY CAN GO AND THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME WAY TO GET RIGHT. I WILL SAY I HAVE A VERY IT'S NOT THE SAME STYLE AT ALL, BUT MY SIGN IN THE FRONT AND I SAY, HOUSE, IT'S MY OFFICE. IT'S 508 MULBERRY AND MY LAW FIRM SIGN IS IN THE YARD. VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT SHE HAS. THE ONLY WAY I KNEW TO EVEN LOOK BEFORE I WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS TO GET IT REZONED SO THAT I COULD HAVE AN OFFICE. THERE IS WHEN I LEARNED THAT I WOULD NEED TO DO IT. HAD I NOT ALREADY BEEN IN CONTACT WITH MASON, SHE WAS THE ONE THAT TIPPED ME OFF TO IT. I WOULD HAVE HAD NO IDEA. I WOULD HAVE ASSUMED, OKAY, WELL, I CAN PUT THIS OUT THERE. SO JUST. AND THAT WAS IN. I'VE ALREADY LOST TRACK OF TIME, BUT I THINK IT WAS IN 23 OR 24. SO I CAN SAY AS RECENTLY AS THEN, THERE REALLY WASN'T A WAY FOR ME TO KNOW ABOUT THAT OTHER THAN THE OFFICE JUST NOTIFYING ME. SO, SO THEN IF THE PREVIOUS CASE OR TWO IS A PRECEDENT, THEN I THINK WE'RE STILL WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT APPROPRIATENESS FOR THIS, RIGHT? I MEAN, IF THIS HAD COME TO US AS A DESIGN, WOULD WE HAVE DEEMED IT APPROPRIATE FOR MASON? DOES IT DOES IT MEET ALL GUIDELINES FOR SIZE? HAS ANYBODY I MEAN, ARE THERE GUIDELINES FOR SIZE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD? THERE IS A BUILDING PERMIT HAS NOT BEEN SUBMITTED FOR THIS. SO WE WE DON'T KNOW THE SIZE. WE DON'T KNOW THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. SO UNTIL THAT'S SUBMITTED, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU. WOULD IT HAVE TO BE SUBMITTED? WOULD WOULD THEY HAVE TO PULL A PERMIT WITH A SIGN? YES, SIR. ALL ALL SIGNAGE REQUIRES A PERMIT IN CITY LIMITS. WELL, THEY HAD A SUBCONTRACTOR, EXTREME EXTERIORS WITH INSTALL. SO DID EXTREME EXTERIORS PULL THE PERMIT FOR? NO PERMIT WAS RECEIVED AT ALL. WELL, BUT THERE WAS ONE FILE. THEY JUST DID THE ADDRESS INCORRECTLY. AND SO THEN THAT'S WHEN IT THEN GOT HIGHLIGHTED. AND THEN IT SAID, NOW YOU WERE ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO GO HERE FIRST AND THEN IT DIED A YEAR AGO. SO THAT. YES, YOU'RE CORRECT. I MEAN, THE PERMIT WAS NOT FILED. IT WAS FILED UNDER MY HOME ADDRESS INSTEAD OF THE BUSINESS ADDRESS. AND I CAN CLARIFY ON THAT TOO. IT WAS SUBMITTED UNDER THE HOME ADDRESS AND NOT THE ADDRESS, BUT IT WAS JUST EMAILED AND IT WAS EMAILED TO ME SPECIFICALLY. AND I SAID, THIS IS THE WRONG ADDRESS. THE PERMIT, THE ORIGINAL PERMIT WAS DENIED. ANOTHER PERMIT WAS NEVER SUBMITTED. SO THAT BEING SAID, WHENEVER WE LOOK AT STUFF, OBVIOUSLY WE GO BY THE ADDRESS. SO THIS SPECIFIC ADDRESS DOES NOT HAVE ANY PERMITS. NO. NOTHING. SO. SO I DON'T KNOW ANY SQUARE FOOTAGE. OH, AND I JUST KEEP THINKING ABOUT IT'S BEEN REALLY HARD TO CONTACT THE CITY EVER SINCE LAST APRIL. APRIL A YEAR AGO BECAUSE THE CITY GOT HACKED. I MYSELF HAVE HAD TROUBLE CONTACTING THE CITY, SO IT'S JUST IT'S THE PERFECT STORM. AND SO AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THE APPROVAL OF, OF THE REQUEST. SO I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT IF THERE WAS ANY MAJOR ISSUES THAT IT WOULD HAVE NOT COME WITH A RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE. SO JUST TO REFOCUS US, THIS IS JUST TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ADD THE SIGN REGARDLESS OF PERMITTING STATUS, ETC.. YEAH. SO THIS IS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO APPROVE THE SIGN. AND THEN WHEN THEY SUBMIT THE PERMIT FOR REVIEW, STAFF WILL THEN IF Y'ALL PICKED ANY SPECIFIC COLORS OR ANY POSTS OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, THEN, THEN WE, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE PERMIT, WE WOULD VERIFY THAT IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU GUYS SAID. AND THEN ALL THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR CODE. OKAY. GIVEN THE PRECEDENCE OF THE LAST COUPLE CASES THAT HAVE COME, I WOULD SAY YES. LIKE IT'S NOT FAIR TO SAY NO. BECAUSE WHATEVER REASON WHY IT WASN'T DONE, IT DOESN'T MATTER. BUT AGAIN, IT'S THE EFFICACY OF THE BOARD TO MAINTAIN. [01:00:03] SO WE APPROVE THIS ONE. AND IN SOME WAYS, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION SO LONG. THINGS ESPECIALLY LIKE THIS ARE NOT PERMANENT. WE CAN MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS, BUT TEN YEARS LATER, THAT HOUSE MAY BE SOMETHING ELSE. THE TRAMS MAY NOT OWN IT, AND THAT'S FINE. SOMEBODY'S GOING TO GO OUT THERE AND IT'S JUST GONE IN AN INSTANT AND CUT IT DOWN. AND WE. AND THINGS CHANGE. SO SOMETIMES YOU CAN MAKE A REALLY BIG DEAL OUT OF SOMETHING KIND OF SMALL HERE AT LANDMARKS COMMISSION, BUT OUT IN THE PUBLIC, THINGS CHANGE. AND IT'S NOT, AS I'VE LEARNED, KIND OF, IT'S PERSONALLY THAT IT'S NOT AS BIG OF A DEAL AS YOU THOUGHT IT WAS. DO I HAVE A MOTION? SO MOVED. SECOND. MR.. YOUNG. YES. MR.. YES, MISS. MR.. YES. MR. HOOD. YES, MISS. YES, MISS. YES. AND MISS LEE. YES. AND THE MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. OKAY. THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA. RECEIVE A REPORT, HOLD A DISCUSSION AND PUBLIC HEARING. [5. CA-2026-03: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on A Request for Certificate of Appropriateness to Demolish the Carriage House Located at 340A Palm Street (Kera Valois)] AND TAKE ACTION ON A REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO DEMOLISH A CARRIAGE HOUSE LOCATED AT 340 A PALM STREET. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS KIARA. I'M. TODAY I'M REPRESENTING KCCA 2020 603. THE OWNER IS JOSHUA AND MEGAN ROTH. THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO DEMOLISH THE CARRIAGE HOUSE. THE TANDY HOUSE, BUILT IN 1910, IS A TWO STORY AMERICAN FOURSQUARE WITH COLONIAL REVIVAL STYLE. THERE'S A HIP ROOF WITH A CENTRAL CHIMNEY AND CYLINDRICAL COLUMNS SUPPORT THE ROOF FOR THE WRAPAROUND PORCH. THERE ARE TWO STONE CARRIAGE HOUSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROPERTY, ONE LOCATED AT 348 PALM AND ONE LOCATED AT 342 PALM. THE TANDY HOUSE RECEIVED HISTORICAL OVERLAY IN 2011 AND THERE IS A CURRENT CODE COMPLIANCE CASE ON. THE ONE LOCATED AT 340 A PALM, WHICH IS THIS ONE? YES, MA'AM. OKAY, HERE WE HAVE THE LOCATION MAP. THE AERIAL MAP. THE ZONING MAP. HERE WE HAVE SOME PHOTOS OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. GOODNESS. SOME ADDITIONAL PHOTOS OF THE SUBJECT. PROPERTY. FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS REVIEWED PURSUANT TO THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR THE REHABILITATION OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS. STAFF RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. DO YOU HAVE ANY BUILDINGS PICTURES OF THE ENTIRE PROPERTY FOR US TO SEE? SO THIS IS ON ITS OWN SEPARATE PROPERTY AND IT'S JUST THIS BUILDING ON THAT PROPERTY. OH, AND THEY'RE JUST WANTING TO TEAR IT DOWN AT THIS POINT. NO REBUILD. CORRECT. AND IT'S WHAT ARE THE CODE? SO IT'S GOT CODE VIOLATIONS AGAINST IT. SO IT DOES HAVE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE DOES HAVE A CASE ON THIS. BECAUSE OF THE DAMAGE TO IT, I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S BEEN TO BOB'S JUST YET. IF IT'S BEEN TO BOB'S THE OWNER IS HERE. IT LOOKS PRETTY UNSTABLE WITH THE. IT HASN'T BEEN DEMOLISHED YET THOUGH. NO, IT HAS NOT BEEN DEMOLISHED YET. OKAY. RIGHT. HAVE THEY DEMOLISHED IT? AND THERE'S NO ENGINEER REPORT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THERE WAS A REPORT FROM THEIR CONTRACTOR STATING THAT IT IS SEVERE FOUNDATION. NO FOOTINGS OR BEAMS WITH SEVERE CONCRETE DAMAGE ARE PRESENT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE FOUNDATION. THERE'S SEVERE WOOD ROT AND ALL FRAMING SEVERE WOOD ROT, EXCESSIVE FOUNDATION DEGRADATION, AND LOCATION OF BUILDING ON PROPERTY AND PROXIMITY TO BOUNDARY LINES MAKE ANY FOUNDATION REPAIRS UNREALISTIC? YEAH, THE FOUNDATION IS IN HORRIBLE CONDITION. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OKAY, WE'LL CLOSE THE STAFF MEETING. IF THERE'S ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME AND SPEAK. PLEASE SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. GOOD EVENING. I AM MEGAN ROSS. I AM THE PROPERTY OWNER. I LIVE IN THE MAIN HOUSE AT 342 PALM. [01:05:07] SO THIS, THIS STRUCTURE WHEN WE PURCHASED THE HOUSE WAS A RENTAL PROPERTY. AND A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, THE ISSUES BEGAN WITH THE NORTH WALL. SO IT'S A, IT'S A WOOD FRAME WITH STONE EXTERIOR. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL THERE IS TO IT. AND A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, THE NORTH WALL COMPLETELY COLLAPSED. AND I HAD A TENANT IN THE BUILDING WHO HAD TO MOVE OUT AT THAT TIME. SO WHERE YOU CAN SEE THAT IN THAT, OH, YOU CAN'T SEE THE PICTURES. BUT IN THAT CENTRAL PICTURE WHERE THAT PLASTIC TARP IS, IS WHERE THERE'S NO STONE EXTERIOR, IT'S JUST WELL, IN SOME PARTS IT'S A GAPING HOLE INTO THE CENTER OF THE BUILDING. AND THEN IN OTHER PARTS OF IT, IT HAS SOME SHIPLAP. SO ORIGINALLY OUR INTENTION WAS TO TRY TO REPAIR THIS AND WE BROUGHT A CONTRACTOR OUT TO TALK ABOUT CAN WE REBUILD THE STONE? AND THAT'S WHEN WE DISCOVERED THAT IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE A FOUNDATION. SO I IMAGINE IT WAS ORIGINALLY A TRUE CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT ON A DIRT FLOOR. AT SOME POINT, A CONCRETE SLAB WAS POURED, BUT IT IS NOT A FOUNDATION. IT IS NOT SUPPORTING TO THE BUILDING. AND SO WE WERE TOLD THAT AT THAT TIME THAT TO, TO, TO SOLIDIFY THE STRUCTURE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE LIFTED. AND THEN A TRUE FOUNDATION INSTALLED. AND YOU CAN SEE FROM SOME OF THE PICTURES IN THE PACKET THAT THE REMAINING STONE HAS SIGNIFICANT CRACKS IN IT, AND SOME OF IT IS PULLING AWAY FROM THE BUILDING ALREADY, WHICH MAKES IT A SIGNIFICANT SAFETY HAZARD TO THE PUBLIC. IT SITS ON THE ALLEY. IT'S NEAR THE THE PROPERTY LINE, BOTH IN THE ALLEYWAY AS WELL AS THE THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. THERE'S A CARPORT THERE. THERE ARE VEHICLES THAT PARK THERE. AND, AND SO PEOPLE ARE CERTAINLY MOVING AROUND THIS BUILDING ON A REGULAR BASIS. AND WE WERE TOLD THAT IF WE TRIED TO LIFT THE BUILDING TO INSTALL A FOUNDATION, MOST OF THAT STONE WILL PROBABLY COLLAPSE. AND SO THEN AT THAT POINT, ALL WE'RE LEFT WITH IS THIS WOOD FRAME AND A LITTLE BIT OF SHIPLAP. AND THE WOOD ITSELF, AS THE CONTRACTOR SAID, IS NOT IN GREAT SHAPE. SO THERE'S NOT MUCH TO SALVAGE WITH THIS BUILDING. AND SO WE HAVE, WE BROUGHT A CONTRACTOR OUT IN THE FALL TO TO GET A QUOTE ON THE DEMOLITION. IN THE MEANTIME, THE CITY HAS REACHED OUT TO US NUMEROUS TIMES WITH CODE VIOLATION ISSUES. WE HAVE MADE VERY STRONG, GOOD FAITH EFFORTS TO ADDRESS THOSE WHILE WE FIGURED OUT WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO WITH THIS LONG TERM, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT HAS NOT BEEN TO THEIR SATISFACTION. MY HUSBAND IS MEETING WITH THE DA TOMORROW MORNING. THEY HAVE CHARGED US WITH CRIMES FOR THIS BUILDING, SO I. PLEASE, I'M PLEADING WITH YOUR SYMPATHIES HERE THAT WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE OWNER? HOW SOON ARE YOU WANTING TO DEMOLISH IT? AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. DO YOU ALREADY HAVE A CREW READY? I WILL, I DON'T. I WILL BE WORKING WITH THE SAME CONTRACTOR AS SOON AS I HAVE PERMISSION TO DO SO. THEN I WILL BEGIN WORKING WITH HIM TO GET THE WORK ALIGNED. WHAT'S YOUR PLAN FOR THE PROPERTY AFTERWARDS? IF IT GETS DEMOED? IT SITS ON THE ALLEYWAY. THERE'S ANOTHER BUILDING NEXT DOOR THAT STILL CONTINUES TO HAVE TENANTS IN IT THAT IS IN MUCH, MUCH BETTER SHAPE. IT WAS BUILT PIER AND BEAM. AND SO DOES NOT HAVE THE ISSUES THAT THIS BUILDING HAS. IT'S A SMALL FOOTPRINT. WE DON'T HAVE ANY PLANS TO DO ANYTHING WITH THAT PARTICULAR PIECE OF LAND. IT'S JUST I MEAN, IT KIND OF SITS IN THE MAIN HOUSE IS INCREDIBLE. WELL, THE MAIN HOUSE IS INCREDIBLE. IT'S IN GREAT SHAPE. THE OTHER BUILDING IS IN DECENT SHAPE. THIS ONE HAS BEEN IN HAD SOME MAINTENANCE ISSUES FOR A LONG TIME. YEAH. DOES THE ROCK MATCH THE MAIN HOUSE AND EVERYTHING? BECAUSE I'M CURIOUS IF IT'S EVEN ORIGINAL. IS THEIR MAIN HOUSE IS QUEEN ANNE KIND OF. YEAH. IT'S WOOD. IT'S A TWO STORY WOOD EXTERIOR. IT'S BEAUTIFUL. IT IS A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE. DOCUMENTATION IS WHAT? THIS WHAT THIS LITTLE CARRIAGE HOUSE LOOK LIKE WHEN IT WAS BUILT. I DON'T KNOW. WELL, WERE THERE ANY FALL PHOTOS? MASON. IF WE HAD SOME, WE WOULD HAVE INCLUDED THEM. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH, IT DOES MATCH THE OTHER CARRIAGE HOUSE. THEY'RE BOTH MADE OF THE SAME STONE, BUT NEITHER BUILDING MATCHES THE MAIN HOUSE. YEAH. JUST AS A SIDE NOTE, IF WE DO APPROVE DEMOLITION, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO HAVE A SALVAGE THE ROCK. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULD BUY THAT ROCK FROM YOU SO THAT IT JUST DOESN'T GO TO THE. [01:10:06] THAT'S OUR HOPE. THE CONTRACTOR THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH IS WILLING TO SEPARATE THE ROCK OUT AS HE TEARS THE BUILDING DOWN AND. WE'RE ALSO HOPING TO SALVAGE SOME OF THE SHIPLAP THAT IS, IF THERE'S ANY SHIPLAP THAT'S IN GOOD CONDITION. AND SOME OF THOSE. SOME OF THOSE BEAMS IN THAT HOUSE ARE MOST CERTAINLY PROBABLY OLD GROWTH FOREST BOARDS, WHICH MEANS IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF DAMAGE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE WORTH A LOT. YEAH. SO IF IT ALSO SAVES US A LOT OF MONEY, IF WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE STONE TO THE DUMP. SO HAVING A CONTRACTOR WHO IS WILLING TO SEPARATE IT IS REALLY GREAT. YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONTACT SOMEONE TO SALVAGE SOME OF THOSE BOARDS BECAUSE THEY, THEY THEMSELVES ARE WORTH A LOT. IF THEY DON'T GET ALL CRUNCHED UP, I DON'T KNOW. I JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO POSSIBLY DO THAT. IF WE DO APPROVE DEMOLITION. I WILL I'LL CONTINUE THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CONTRACTOR. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE COMMISSION, THE HISTORIC OVERLAY ON THE PROPERTY? IS IT JUST FOR THAT LITTLE CARRIAGE HOUSE, OR IS IT LIKE PART OF. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. MULTIPLE CARRIAGE HOUSES IN THE. SO PROBABLY. CAN YOU. I WOULD THINK IT WAS FOR THE WHOLE ENTIRE PROPERTY WHEN IT WENT ON THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH. THAT ONE. OKAY. SO ON OUR SCREENS, THE PROPERTY. TWO 8949 IT GOES WITH THAT ONE. SO PROBABLY AT SOME POINT IT WAS JUST SUBDIVIDED OFF. SO THE HISTORIC OVERLAY APPLIES TO BOTH. SO PROBABLY WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS REMOVE THE HISTORIC OVERLAY JUST ON THAT ONE LOT AND NOT THE TWO 8949 LOT. SINCE SINCE THE HOUSE IS GOING AWAY, THE OTHER TWO STRUCTURES ARE CORRECT AND THAT HAS THE HISTORIC OVERLAY AS WELL. OKAY. THE OTHER CARRIAGE HOUSES IN 22 8949. THE HOUSE, THE MAIN HOUSE AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE ARE IN THAT ONE. BUT THIS ONE'S JUST IN THIS OTHER LITTLE THE ONE WITH THE SLASHES. GOTCHA. AND SO THAT WOULD BE THAT WAS MY QUESTION REALLY IS IT WOULD JUST LOSE ITS THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HISTORIC OVERLAY OVER THAT PART OF THE FOR THE VACANT LOT. YEAH. STYLISTICALLY I DON'T I MEAN, THERE'S, IT'S NOT ALIGNED WITH THE MAIN HOUSE. IT'S NOT THE JEWEL OF THE PROPERTY. IT'S A UTILITARIAN BUILDING. AND TO ME, THIS IS A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE MORE THAN ANYTHING. SO MY $0.02. WHAT'S APPROPRIATE IS TO DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE. THAT STRUCTURE HAS BEEN IN BAD SHAPE FOR A LONG TIME. I KNOW, I KNOW THIS PROPERTY WELL, SO THE I'M A LITTLE BIT SAD BECAUSE THAT POCKET OF ABILENE, SOME OF THOSE HOUSES RIGHT IN THERE, SOME OF THE OLDEST HOUSES THAT EXIST IN ALL OF ABILENE. SO THE TANDY HOUSE IS WHAT, WHAT YEAR WAS IT BORN? WAS IT BUILT? BUT I'VE ALSO SEEN OTHER THINGS, SAY 1903. YEAH. IT'S IT MAY BE OLDER. IT'S IT'S WELL, EVIDENTLY CARRIAGE HOUSE WAS BUILT BACK THEN. WERE JUST ON THE DIRT. YES, YES. OKAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? DO I HAVE A MOTION? I'LL MOVE BEFORE I MAKE A MOTION. I WANT TO BE CLEAR. WE'RE NOT VOTING TO REMOVE THE OVERLAY. DO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THAT, OR IS THIS SIMPLY FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS? JUST FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. OKAY. I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE C A 2020 603. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. MR. YOUNG. YES. MR. HOGAN. YES, MISS MR.. YES. MR.. YES, MISS. YES, MISS. YES. AND MISS LEE. YES. AND THE MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. OKAY. [6. Resolution: Receive a Report, Hold a Discussion and Public Hearing, and Take Action on Approving a Resolution to Adopt the Council Rules of Procedure as the Rules of Procedure for the Landmarks Commission, preserving the Standing Committees, the Guiding Principles, and the Eligible Expense Guidance for Historic Project Tax Credits. ​(Kelley Messer)] ITEM NUMBER SIX. RESOLUTION. RECEIVE A REPORT, HOLD A DISCUSSION, DISCUSSION AND PUBLIC HEARING. AND TAKE ACTION ON APPROVING A RESOLUTION TO ADOPT THE COUNCIL RULES OF PROCEDURE AS THE RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR THE LANDMARKS COMMISSION. PRESERVING THE STANDARD. THE STANDING COMMITTEES, THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES AND THE ELIGIBLE EXPENSE GUIDANCE FOR HISTORIC PROJECT TAX CREDITS AND KELLY MESSER IS GOING TO TALK TO THE TALK TO US ABOUT THIS. SO A FEW YEARS AGO, THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTED THESE GOVERNING PRINCIPLES, RULES OF PROCEDURE. AND THEY, THEIR INTENT THAT THEY THEY STATED AND WITHIN THESE THAT ALL BOARDS FOLLOW THOSE. [01:15:02] AND BEFORE THAT I BELIEVE I BELIEVE COUNCIL FOLLOWED ROBERT'S AND ALL OF THE OTHER BOARDS FOLLOWED STURGIS. AND THEN SOME BOARDS LIKE THIS ONE HAD THEIR OWN RULES OF PROCEDURE AND THERE WAS NO UNIFORMITY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WELL, AND MELISSA NOTICED IN YOUR YOUR FOLDER THAT SHE MAINTAINS AND, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU USE FOR MEETINGS THAT WE HAD OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE STILL IN THERE AND THERE JUST WASN'T CLARITY THAT WE'RE NOW FOLLOWING THE COUNCIL RULES. AND SO WE LOOKED AT THAT AT THE COUNCIL RULES OF PROCEDURE AND THE, THE ORDINANCE, THE CITY ORDINANCE SAYS THAT YOU WILL HAVE THE RULES OF PROCEDURE. AND SO THIS IS A WAY TO CLARIFY THINGS. WE'RE FOLLOWING THE ORDINANCE, BUT ALSO WE'RE MAINTAINING THE THAT THERE'S TWO ITEMS INCLUDED IN THIS RESOLUTION THAT WERE IN YOUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, THAT IF YOU ADOPT THIS RESOLUTION, THEY ARE MAINTAINED, AND THAT IS TO PRESERVE THE GUIDANCE OF THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION. AND SO IT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS, I SAID, RULES OF PROCEDURE, BUT THEY'RE CALLED BYLAWS AS WELL. SO THEY WERE IN YOUR PREVIOUS BYLAWS, RULES OF PROCEDURE, AND THEY WOULD BE CARRIED FORWARD IN THIS RESOLUTION THAT YOU ADOPT. NOW, THERE'S A REFERENCE TO THAT IN THE ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC HERE. SO I JUST TOOK THE SAME LANGUAGE FROM THE FORMER OR THE BYLAWS THAT YOU HOPEFULLY WILL REPLACE AND PUT THEM IN THIS RESOLUTION SO THAT THEY'RE MAINTAINED IN YOUR RESOLUTION. AND THEN ALSO THERE'S THE ELIGIBLE EXPENSE GUIDANCE FOR HISTORIC PROJECT TAX CREDITS. AND IT'S THE OTHER THAT IS THE IF YOU LOOK THE, THE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS IS GOING TO BE PART THREE OF YOUR RESOLUTION. AND THEN PART FOUR ARE THE ELIGIBLE EXPENSES. AND THAT WAS WHAT THAT, THAT JUST COMES VERBATIM FROM YOUR BYLAWS IN THAT WAY. AND THEN ALSO THE LAST THING IS NOT ON, NOT ON THIS SLIDE, BUT ALSO THE STANDING COMMITTEES. YOU HAD STANDING COMMITTEES. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU ALWAYS UTILIZE THOSE STANDING COMMITTEES, BUT THIS RESOLUTION ALSO CARRIES FORWARD THE STANDING COMMITTEES. SO THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE CARRIED FORWARD ARE WOULD BE CARRIED FORWARD AND, AND YOU KNOW, FORMALIZED IN A RESOLUTION, BUT IT ALSO SAYS WE'RE OTHERWISE DOING AWAY WITH THE RULES OF PROCEDURE AND WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW COUNCIL RULES OF PROCEDURE AND REALLY HOW YOU RUN THE MEETING IS VERY SIMPLE AND NOTHING WOULD REALLY CHANGE ABOUT HOW YOU RUN THE MEETING. AND SO DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YOU SHOULD HAVE THIS RESOLUTION IN YOUR PACKET. DO YOU WANT TO EXPLAIN TO THEM ABOUT STANDING COMMITTEES OR WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO. I'LL JUST SO THE, THE SAME WORDING THAT WAS IN THE, THE FORMER BYLAWS, RULES OF PROCEDURE. AND NOW IN THIS RESOLUTION IS THERE SHALL BE THREE STANDING COMMITTEES DOWNTOWN, NORTH SIDE, SOUTH SIDE, EACH MEMBER AND ALTERNATE OF THE COMMISSION SHALL BE APPOINTED TO ONE OF THE STANDING COMMITTEES BY THE CHAIR FOR A ONE YEAR TERM. I KNOW YOU USED TO TO DO THAT, AND THE IDEA WAS THAT THE THAT THE STANDING COMMITTEES COULD REVIEW AT THE REQUEST OF THE CHAIR AND ACCORDING TO THEIR GEOGRAPHIC AREA, COULD REVIEW CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS, BUILDING PROJECTS AND ZONING REQUESTS AND TAX REDUCTION AND OTHER MATTERS RELATED TO A PROPERTY BEFORE THE COMMISSION BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MEET IN NUMBERS OF A QUORUM OR IT WOULD VIOLATE THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT. AND SO THE STANDING COMMITTEES ALLOWED LESS THAN A QUORUM TO REVIEW ITEMS THAT MIGHT BE COMING. BUT I DON'T KNOW YOU THAT YOU'VE UTILIZED THAT IN RECENT YEARS. AND THAT COULD BE REMOVED. YOU COULD APPROVE THE RESOLUTION REMOVING PART FIVE. IF YOU DID NOT WANT TO. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE THEM. I MEAN, IT SAYS THEY SHALL BE APPOINTED. IT'S NOT ORDINANCE, IT IS YOUR RESOLUTION. AND SO IF YOU'RE PASSING IT, IT'D BE GOOD TO APPOINT YOUR STANDING COMMITTEES. BUT I DON'T THINK YOU YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE STANDING COMMITTEES MEET. I JUST PUT IT IN SO THAT IT WOULD BE PRESERVED. SO WE HAVEN'T USED THE STANDING COMMITTEES IN A LONG TIME, BUT WE USED TO USE THEM FAIRLY OFTEN. EVERYONE ON THE COMMISSION WAS ASSIGNED A CERTAIN AREA, AND IF THE CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION WANTED SOMETHING PERSONALLY LOOKED AT, THEY WOULD SAY, I WOULD LIKE OUR STANDING COMMITTEE TO GO AND LOOK AT THIS PROPERTY. ACTUALLY GO ON SITE AND SOMETIMES WE WOULD TALK WITH THE OWNER. [01:20:02] LOOK AROUND SEE IT FOR OURSELVES. AND THEN WHEN WE CAME TO THE NEXT COMMISSION MEETING, WE HAD PEOPLE THAT HAD REALLY BEEN THERE AND SEEN YOU KNOW, THE STRUCTURE OR WHAT WAS GOING TO BE DONE. AND IT WAS VERY HELPFUL. AND I DO REMEMBER BEING ON I WAS ON THE NORTH SIDE COMMITTEE. SO WE WOULD GO OUT AND LOOK AT THINGS EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. NOT VERY OFTEN. I MEAN, IT HASN'T BEEN USED VERY MUCH, BUT A FEW TIMES IT WAS HELPFUL. SO SHE SO WHAT KELLY'S DONE IS WHERE WE NEED TO BE STANDARDIZED AT THE CITY AND FOLLOW THE SAME RULES OF PROCEDURE AS THE COUNCIL THAT THAT'S LIKE WE WE NEED TO GET THAT DONE BECAUSE ALL OF THE COMMISSIONS NEED TO DO THAT NOW. BUT THEY'VE PRESERVED SHE WENT THROUGH EVERYTHING AND TRIED TO FIND THE THINGS THAT WERE DIFFERENT AND MADE US UNIQUE. AND IT'S THESE THREE THINGS. SO AND WE CAN CARRY THOSE FORWARD IF WE WANT TO. AND YOU THINK THAT'S A SUGGESTED IDEA? WELL, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS SO THAT WE JUST HAVE SOMETHING TO GO BY. AND I AND THOSE, THOSE ARE ALSO MENTIONED IN THE ORDINANCE WHEN IT COMES TO MASON. YOU MIGHT REMIND ME, IS IT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS? THIS IS JUST A LITTLE MORE BROAD. AND SO I KNOW IT'S MENTIONED, BUT THIS WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE BROAD. YEAH, YEAH. AND THEN YOU KNOW, LOTS OF PEOPLE COME FOR HISTORIC OVERLAY FOR THE HISTORIC PROJECT TAX CREDITS. SO THAT SEEMS LIKE KIND OF A GIVEN. AND THEN IF WE WANT TO KEEP THOSE STANDING COMMITTEES, WE CAN, WE CAN, WE CAN ASSIGN OURSELVES AND EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, IF THERE'S SOMETHING EITHER, YOU KNOW, EITHER ME OR THE NEXT CHAIR, WHOEVER THAT MAY BE WANTS THE COMMISSION, IT'S A TINY GROUP. IT CAN ONLY BE THREE PEOPLE. CORRECT? MASON. LIKE RIGHT NOW, IT COULD ONLY BE THREE PEOPLE. SO. THERE'S NO HARM IN KEEPING IT AND MOVING FORWARD. IT JUST LEAVES AN OPTION. YEAH. AND WE DON'T WE DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. RIGHT. BUT IT'S BETTER. IT'S LIKE INSURANCE. YOU YOU YOU WANT IT WHEN YOU NEED IT, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU HATE TO HAVE HAVE TO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. I, I MEAN, I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO MOVE THAT OR BRING THAT FORWARD. KELLY DO SO DO WE NEED TO DO WE NEED TO VOTE? DO WE NEED TO DO ANYTHING? YES. I MEAN, SO THIS IS A RESOLUTION AND YOU'D BE ADOPTING THIS. YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T ADOPT RESOLUTIONS VERY OFTEN. BUT THIS I'VE NUMBERED IT 2026 01A RESOLUTION OF THE LANDMARKS COMMISSION. AND WHEN YOU PASS IT, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE A RECORD THAT YOU ADOPTED THAT AND IT WOULD GO IN YOUR BINDER. YOU KNOW, FOR FOR THE FUTURE. AND WE WOULD JUST HAVE A RECORD THAT YOU'VE ADOPTED IT AND IT JUST FORMALIZES WHAT YOU'RE WANTING OR YOU KNOW, WHAT THE BOARD'S DESIRE IS. IF THE BOARD DESIRES TO ADOPT THIS RESOLUTION, IT'S JUST A WAY TO FORMALIZE IT. OKAY, SO IT'S RESOLUTION 2020 601 BECAUSE THAT'S NOT ON THE ACTUAL AGENDA. I I'VE LABELED IT ON THE ACTUAL RESOLUTION. OKAY. SO IT JUST SAYS A RESOLUTION, BUT I'VE NUMBERED IT BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OTHER RESOLUTION. SO IT HAS, IT WOULD BE. OH ONE. OKAY. DO I HAVE A MOTION? WELL, CAN I HAVE A QUESTION? ACTUALLY, MAYBE THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF DETAIL QUESTION, BUT SOMETHING THAT STOOD OUT. I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM BECAUSE I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THE INTERIOR SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS. PART THREE JUST CALLS FOR REHABILITATION. BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY FOUR, RIGHT. THERE'S FOUR DISTINCTIONS FOR THESE STANDARDS. THERE'S PRESERVATION, THERE'S REHABILITATION, THERE'S RECONSTRUCTION AND ANOTHER ONE PRESERVATION. SO AND THEY HAVE DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS, WHICH I WON'T CLAIM TO BE VERSED IN, PROBABLY NEED TO BE. BE ON THIS COMMISSION. BUT I'M CURIOUS. THIS ONE IS JUST CALLING OUT REHABILITATION. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR THAT WAS VETTED AS FAR AS WHAT THOSE STANDARDS MEAN AND HOW THEY'RE APPLIED TO THE PROJECTS THAT WE'RE SEEING COME ACROSS THIS COMMISSION, BUT IT MAY BE WORTH EXPANDING THAT INSTEAD OF CONFINING IT TO THAT ONE STANDARD. AND REALLY, I COPIED THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS ALREADY IN THE BYLAWS. THAT'S THE SAME LANGUAGE WE PREVIOUSLY USED. SO WHAT ARE THE OTHER OTHER THAN REHABILITATION? [01:25:02] THERE'S REHABILITATION. THERE'S RECONSTRUCTION. THERE'S PRESERVATION. FOURTH ONE IS RESTORATION STANDARDS. AND THERE ARE FOUR DIFFERENT STANDARDS. SO I JUST THAT'S WHY I THINK IT. YEAH, IT JUST MAY BE WORTH HAVING THAT IN THERE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, REHABILITATION IS DIFFERENT THAN PRESERVATION. WELL, WE COULD ADD THEM ALL IF YOU, IF YOU LIST THEM OFF, WE CAN ADD THEM ALL AND THEN MAKE THAT, IF YOU APPROVE IT THAT WAY, THEN WE'LL MAKE THE CHANGE AND THEN HAVE OUR CHAIRMAN SIGN SIGN IT. IF IT PASSES THAT WAY, OR IF YOU WANT US TO LOOK TO LOOK INTO IT, WE CAN. YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T. YEAH. WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HISTORY OF THAT WAS WITH THE COMMISSION. THAT'S WHY IT WAS MORE OF A QUESTION. I MEAN, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF US LOOKING INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE. JUST, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT HAVE A BIGGER UMBRELLA. I THINK MEETINGS IN THE PAST HAVE DELVED INTO THE DETAILS OF THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS MORE THAN WE HAVE LATELY. SO VERY SPECIFICALLY TALKED ABOUT THE STANDARDS IN STAFF REPORTS. I'M NOT SURE IF WE DO THAT AS MUCH AS WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY OVER THE YEARS. COULD WE TABLE IT UNTIL THERE'S MORE INFORMATION? BECAUSE I KIND OF AGREE WITH HIM. I MEAN, I GET IT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE I HAVEN'T SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES. I HAVEN'T READ IT. AND IF IT'S EXCLUDING THINGS, I MEAN, IT'S THERE FOR A REASON. I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF MY THOUGHT PROCESS. IS THAT POSSIBLE TO TABLE UNTIL THEY COME BACK WITH MORE INFORMATION OR REVISE. SO THE RESOLUTION DO YOU WANT TO GO AND READ THE SECRETARY OF. NO, NOT AT ALL. OH SORRY. NO, I'M JUST SAYING IF IF HE BROUGHT UP A POINT SAYING THAT IT'S MISSING A PART OF IT. SO THEN WHY NOT MAKE IT COMPLETE WHERE IT INCLUDES EVERYTHING? BECAUSE I'M SO SORRY. I FORGOT YOUR NAME. KIND OF LIKE YOUR INSURANCE THING, RIGHT? YOU WOULD RATHER HAVE IT. YOU'D RATHER HAVE MORE THAN LESS BECAUSE IF YOU NEED IT. AND THEN WE'RE CAUGHT IN A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE NOT HOLDING ACCOUNTABILITY OR WE'RE NOT HELD TO ACCOUNTABILITY BECAUSE IT'S NOT INCLUDED. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WHAT SHOULD WE DO? KELLY. SHOULD WE TABLE IT AND THINK ABOUT IT? OR DO YOU CERTAINLY CAN. AND I CAN LOOK INTO THAT TO SEE WHAT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S DIFFERENT DOCUMENTS. AND IT MAY BE THAT WE SAY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS PERIOD. AND THEN IT WOULD INCLUDE ALL OF THEM INSTEAD OF STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION. BUT IF YOU WANT ME TO LOOK AT THAT, BECAUSE THEY I MEAN, I THINK THAT THEY'RE SEPARATE SETS OF STANDARDS. ARE THEY ALL CALLED SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS PERIOD? YOU KNOW, I CAN LOOK AT WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO LABEL IT. DO WE NEED TO VOTE ON OR JUST SOME? YOU CAN JUST HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND AND A VOICE VOTE TO TABLE TO THE. I WOULD RECOMMEND TABLING IT TO THE NEXT MEETING IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. WAIT, COULDN'T WE JUST DO WHAT YOU JUST SAID AND CHANGE THE VERBIAGE? WELL, WHERE IT SAYS LIKE THE STANDARD OF STANDARDS, SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS PERIOD. YOU COULD DO THAT, BUT I'M NOT SURE. IF YOU WANT ME TO CHECK ON IT, I CAN CHECK ON IT BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S ALWAYS READ THIS WAY. YEAH. SO I'M NOT A LEGAL MIND, BUT I WOULD THINK THAT THAT SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS WOULD SUFFICE. BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH MAKING SURE WE'RE GOOD ON THE LANGUAGE THERE. WELL, THIS IS NO EMERGENCY. THIS IS JUST TO CLEAN UP SOMETHING THAT'S A GOOD IDEA TO CLEAN UP, MAKE THINGS CLEARER. AND IT IS TOTALLY UP TO YOU TO DECIDE. THERE IS A CORRECT IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT BECAUSE AT A HIGH LEVEL THERE IS A THERE IS A COST IMPACT TO THOSE FOUR DIFFERENT APPROACHES. SO SOME MAY BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT WE'RE REVIEWING THAN OTHERS, AND THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I BRING IT UP. AND IF. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TAX CREDITS OR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE THOSE AT OUR DISPOSAL. I WOULD ON YOUR POINT THAT YOU OFFERED TO LOOK IT UP. I THINK THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION ONLY BECAUSE I WORRY THAT THERE MAY BE STUFF IN THERE THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO EITHER. SO I DON'T WANT TO OPEN US UP TO SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T ANTICIPATE BY DOING THAT WITHOUT READING IT. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE BROADER OPTIONS OF THEM IF IF IT FITS. DO I HAVE A MOTION? MOTION TO TABLE. SECONDED TILL THE NEXT MEETING. YES. OKAY. MR. YOUNG. YES. MR.. HALLGREN. YES. [01:30:04] MR.. YES. MR. PITT? YES. MISS ALLEN. YES, MISS MARTIN? YES, MISS LEE. YES. THANK YOU. EVERYONE, WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.