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[CALL TO ORDER]

[INVOCATION]

[MINUTES]

[PLATS]

[3. Z202002: Public hearing and possible vote to recommend approval or denial to City Council on a request from Windmill Circle Partners and Oldham Partners, agents Tony Conder and Don Whitehead, to rezone property from Agricultural Open Space (AO) to General Commercial (GC) District; Legal description being a certain 17.252acre tract of vacant land out of southeast quarter of Blind Asylum Lands Section 62 in City of Abilene, Taylor County, Texas and located near northeast corner of Loop 322 and Industrial Boulevard]

[4. CUP202002: Public hearing and possible vote to recommend approval or denial to City Council on a request from Windmill Circle Partners and Oldham Partners, agents Tony Conder and Don Whitehead, for Conditional Use Permit allowing retail sale and rental of trucks and other large vehicles and equipment in a General Commercial District; Legal Description being approximately 12 acres of vacant land out of southeast quarter of Blind Asylum Lands Section 62 in City of Abilene, Taylor County, Texas and located near northeast corner of Loop 322 and Industrial Boulevard]

[5. Z202003: Public hearing and possible vote to recommend approval or denial to City Council on a request from Parramore Square LLC, agent John Scott, to amend existing Planned Development (PD) District Number 159A, specifically by increasing the density of semidetached dwellings allowed therein; Legal description being all of Block A in Parramore’s Subdivision in City of Abilene, Taylor County, Texas and occupying all of block bounded by Beech, Orange, Parramore and North 7th Streets]

[6. TC202001: Public hearing and possible vote to recommend approval or denial to City Council, on a request from the City of Abilene to abandon 80footwide segment of rightofway dedicated for Cherry Street and extending 80 to 100 feet south from rightofway for South 14th Street]

[7. OAM201903: (TABLED FROM MEETING IN DECEMBER) Public hearing and possible vote to recommend approval or denial to City Council on proposed amendments to Land Development Code for the City of Abilene, removing the entire text of existing Section 2.4.4.2 in Chapter 2 (Zoning Regulations) and which specifically concerns carports and patio covers, replacing said existing text with a new Section 2.4.4.2 regulating the size, height, placement and architectural character of certain carports and patio covers; and adopting new definitions of both “carport” and “patio cover” as those terms appear in Chapter 5 (Definitions) of the Land Development Code]

[02:46:01]

>>>> ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT, THEY HAVE TO COME IN.

[02:46:07]

>>>> UNLESS WE SAID 10 FOOT ON A MINOR AND 15 FOOT ON A COLLECTOR UNLESS WE DID

[02:46:16]

SOMETHING DIFFERENT. SUE MIKE WE ARE TRYING TO KEEP IT ãTHIS IS WHAT I'M GETTING.

[02:46:36]

>>>> I GET THAT. LET'S KEEP GOING. AS IT IS WRITTEN THE FIVE FEET

[02:46:40]

FROM THE LOT BOUNDARY IS 15 FOOT FROM STREET SERVICE. WE WILL LEAVE THAT IN.

[02:46:46]

THAT'S OKAY. LET'S KEEP GOING. I WILL JUST READ IT DOWN AND

[02:46:56]

SEE THREE-FOOT, HERE IS ANOTHER ONE THREE FOOT FROM INTERIOR SIDE BOUNDARY.

[02:47:02]

THAT'S ON COMMERCIAL AS WELL AS.

[02:47:08]

GOING, THESE ARE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS. I GET THAT.

[02:47:10]

>>>> THREE-FOOT FROM THE BOUNDARY HAS NOT PROVEN TO BE PROBLEMATICAL.

[02:47:21]

IT APPEARS TO BE MORE OR LESS WIDELY ACCEPTED. THAT'S NOT TO SAY THE BOARD OF

[02:47:31]

ADJUSTMENT DOESN'T HAVE TO LOOK AT THE REQUESTED VARIANCE FROM THAT BUT IT IS BY AND LARGE

[02:47:37]

ACCEPTED. >>>> THE.

[02:47:44]

I WOULD SAY WE KEEP THAT PIECE. >>>> I WOULD SAY KEEP GOING

[02:47:49]

DOWN UNLESS SOMEBODY TELLS ME NOT TO. ÃMUST NOT BE MORE THAN 12 FEET

[02:47:56]

HIGH EXCEPTION RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS OR ARCHITECTURAL EXCEPTIONS.

[02:48:02]

CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT THE HEIGHT A LITTLE BIT?

[02:48:11]

>>>> QUITE FRANKLY THIS IS INTENDED BY CITY COUNCIL TO PREVENT EXTRAORDINARILY TALL ã

[02:48:20]

FOR SHELTERING EXTRAORDINARILY TALL RVS. SO AS I AM CURRENTLY RV

[02:48:31]

SHOPPING YOU DON'T WANT ME TO BUILD ONE OF THESE IN MY FRONT YARD.

[02:48:37]

OR MY SIDE YARD. IT WOULD BE AN EYESORE. HOW AM I DOING?

[02:48:43]

AND I DON'T DISAGREE. >>>> THAT IF YOU HAVE AN

[02:48:53]

EXTRAORDINARILY TALL RV AND YOU WANT IT TO BE COVERED, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RENT A STORAGE

[02:48:56]

SPACE IN A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. >>>> YOU COULD COME IN FOR A

[02:49:02]

VARIANCE ON THAT. IF YOU HAD A SPECIALTY CHILD OF A TALL VAN.

[02:49:09]

>>>> YOU COULD SEEK APPROVAL OF A VARIANCE AND AMENDED THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE

[02:49:17]

ARCHITECTURAL EXCEPTIONS AND IF YOU HAVE IT ATTACHED CARPORT, I TAKE IT BACK.

[02:49:31]

IF YOU HAVE A PITCHED ROOF ON YOUR CARPORT, WE ARE NOT GOING TO MEASURE THE 12 FEET TO THE

[02:49:38]

TOP. WE WILL MEASURE IT FROM THE LOWEST HORIZONTAL ELEMENT.

[02:49:41]

>>>> I WAS GOING TO ASK THAT QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE 12 FOOT WAS THE MAXIMUM

[02:49:48]

HEIGHT OF THE STRUCTURE OR A CLEAR SPACE FROM SURFACE TO BOTTOM.

[02:49:56]

>>>> OKAY. YOU ARE SAYING WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW UP TO 12 FEET HIGH THE

[02:50:01]

OPEN SPACE THEY CAN DRIVE UNDER WE ARE NOT REALLY REGULATING ITS HEIGHTS.

[02:50:09]

>>>> IF YOU CAN FIT YOUR RV IN A 12 FOOT HIGH SPACE HIGHER THAN THAT IT WOULD NOT BE

[02:50:16]

PRINCIPAL. >>>> DO WE NEED TO SAY THAT?

>>>> WE NEED TO BE MORE CLEAR. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE BULLET. AND THAT'S FINE.

I'M GOOD WITH THAT. >> LET'S MOVE ON. NO LONGER AUTHORIZED TO APPROVE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS FROM ANY CARPORT RELATED STANDARDS, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY WOULD APPROVE THE VARIANCE WITH SPECIAL CONDITIONS, HELP ME WITH THIS ONE.

WE STILL HAVE TWO GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS BUT WE ARE LIMITING WHAT THEY CAN DO.

HELP ME WITH THIS. WHAT DO YOU SAY? THEY WOULD HAVE TO SEEK

APPROVAL OF A VARIANCE. >>>> OKAY.

SAY ONE MORE TIME. >>>> I WAS JUST ASKING.

THIS IS TALKING ABOUT IF YOU TOOK AWAY I THINK IT'S EASIER TO THINK ABOUT THIS RELATED TO THE QUESTIONS OF DO YOU WANT TO ALLOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS SLIDE IF YOU WANT TO ALLOW A CARPORT IN THE FRONT YARD AS A MATTER OF PRIDE OR IF YOU WANT TO ALLOW IT AS A MATTER OF RIGHT. AND OR IF YOU WANT TO OWN IT AS A MATTER OF RIGHT WITH OUR COMPATIBILITY STANDARDS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IF THEY HAVE THOSE TWO THINGS THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO TO GET A SPECIAL EXCEPTION SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO ELIMINATE, IT GOES BACK TO THE VERY FIRST, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? YES.

>> I THINK THE QUESTION IS WHAT DO YOU ALLOW AS A MATTER OF RIGHT AND IN PARTICULAR, IF YOU WANT ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY, HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT?

>>>> I SEE. >>>> IF IT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU THAT THEY HAVE ANOTHER CARPORT BECAUSE I THINK THAT SOMETHING THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOCUSES ON A LOT. THEY WOULD NOT SEE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE IF BOTH OF THOSE ELEMENTS IF ONE OF THOSE ELEMENTS WEREN'T MISSING THE ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY SOMEONE WANTS A CARPORT BUT THAT HAS BEEN A BIG FOCUS OF THE PAST AND THE DISCUSSION AS TO HOW MANY ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT'S PART OF THE PRESENTATION.

IS THAT SOMETHING THIS BOARD THINKS IS IMPORTANT, TO THINK ABOUT, WE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE ON THE SAME ãOR NOT. AND IS THAT, IF I HAVE ONE IN THE FRONT, MY HOUSE AND THE ONE ON THE SIDE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT? THE SAME, FACING.

I GOT YOU. I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY, YOU WANT TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS ARE THAT THEY ARE DOING ON THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND VARIANCES. LIKE KELLY WAS SAYING SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS A LOT LOOSER. SOME OF US ON THE SAME BLOCK FACE AND THEY TAKEN AN ACCOUNT A LOT OF WHAT MITCH WAS SAYING, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT KIND OF THING WHEREAS THE VARIANCE IT'S VERY SPECIFIC THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE WITH THE PHYSICAL SURROUNDING THE SHAPE, TOPOGRAPHY IT'S A STRICT APPLICATION OF THE PROVISION IN ORDER TO GRANT THE VARIANCE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST OR INJURY THAT THEY BRING PROPERTIES OR DETRIMENTAL TO THE PUBLIC WELFARE GRANTING THE VARIANCES CONSISTENT WITH THE INTENT OF LDC AND HARDSHIP IS NOT CAUSED OR SUBSTANTIAL IN PART BY THE PETITIONER AND YOU CANNOT USE FINANCIAL HARDSHIP. TO FURTHER CLARIFY THAT IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING ABOUT THE LAND OR THE LOT ITSELF THAT CAUSES THE HARDSHIP.

[02:55:04]

THE VARIANCES GO. IN THE EXPERIENCE THAT SIMPLER IS BETTER.

THANK YOU.HAT DOESN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION. >> YOU CAN'T NOT APPROVE SPECIAL EXCEPTION ON ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY. TAKE THE DOUBLE NEGATIVE OUT OF THAT.

THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS ALLOWED TO IMPROVE WITH SPECIAL EXCEPTION ONLY ON THINGS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED AS BEING APPROVED BY SPECIAL EXCEPTION IN THE LAST ELEMENT CODE. YOU CAN ASK FOR A VARIANCE FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU CANNOT GET A VARIANCE TO A GAS STATION OR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD BUT JUST ABOUT ANYTHING AND IN THE ZONING REGULATIONS IF YOU CAN MEET THAT DIFFICULT BURDEN OF PROOF.

YOU CAN ONLY SEEK APPROVAL OF A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE OR ZONING REGULATIONS AS BEING SUBJECT TO APPROVAL FOR A SPECIAL EXEMPTION. SO UNLESS YOU SPECIFICALLY MENTION IT AS BEING ALLOWED,

IT'S NEVER GOING TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. >> IT'S MY IDEA WITH THE WHOLE RATIONALE BEHIND THE DRAFT ORDINANCE TO GET THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OUT OF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND LET THAT BE BY RIGHT AND THEY CAN DO THAT IF THEY MEET THE REGULATIONS AND A REVIEW OF ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY WILL BE A STAFF FUNCTION WHICH MOST COMMUNITIES HAVE AN APPEAL PROCESS IF SOMEONE DOESN'T LIKE IT TYPICALLY IT'S A PLANNING STAFF THE PLANNING DIRECTOR WOULD MAKE THAT DETERMINATION OF ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY.

IF THE APPLICANT, IF WE SAID NO, THAT'S NOT ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE THEY DO HAVE AN

APPEAL PROCESS IN PLACE. >> TO THE APPEAL TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT?

>> IT COULD GO TO THE CITY MANAGER. IT COULD COME TO YOU GUYS.

>> THE OBJECTIVE OF ALL OF THIS IS TO TAKE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OUT OF IT TO THE

EXTENT POSSIBLE. >> WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING IS EVERY CARPORT REQUEST GETS APPROVED. AND THAT'S TERRIBLY INEFFICIENT BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING FOLKS PAY A $400 FEE AND MAKING THEM WAIT A MONTH OR TWO MONTHS TO GET ON AN AGENDA TO GET A YES

THAT THEY ARE GOING TO GET ANYWAY. >> JUST ADD ANOTHER LAYER.

>> WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO, ME SPEAKING PROFESSIONALLY. THE GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS IF AN APPLICANT MEETS WHATEVER WE COME UP WITH THEY CAN GET THEIR BUILDING PERMIT AND PROCEED

WITH THE PROJECT. >> YOU WERE TRYING TO SAY A NEIGHBOR ON MY STREET HAS ONE AND THERE IS NEED TO BE PERMITTED AS WELL. TO BE GRANDFATHERED INTO

SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NOT ALLOW BECAUSE ã>> THUS THE MOST NONSENSICAL CODE PROVISION I THINK I HAVE EVER SEEN. THAT YOU CAN BE GRANDFATHERED IN.

>> BY THE WAY THERE'S IS ILLEGAL. I THINK IF YOU JUST ADD IT THERE'S ANOTHER PERMIT CARDBOARD ON THE STREET THAT GETS YOU UP TO THAT LEVEL AND YOU COULD FOLLOW SOMEBODY ELSE'S. LEGALLY PERMITTED OR WHATEVER.

IT SEEMS LIKE ADDING THAT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE YOU SHOULD

GET THE BENEFIT. >> I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY ADDING A PROVISION WHERE YOU COULD NOT HAVE ONE UNLESS THERE IS ONE ON YOUR BLOCK.

>> WE ARE TALKING ARCHITECTURE. >> IF YOU ARE GOING TO SET ORDINANCE IN PLACE.

[03:00:02]

THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE PROVISIONS THOSE ON YOUR STREET NEED TO BE PERMITTED AS WELL.

>> THAT STRICTLY ON THE ARCHITECTURAL SIDE OF THINGS. >> JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE A

FLAT ROOF THAT IS NOT PITCHED. >> I WOULD SAY YOU COULD ALMOST BE GRANDFATHERED IN.

I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR. WE WERE TRYING TO WRITE A CLEAR ORDINANCE PERMITTED STRUCTURES.

LET'S KEEP GOING. ANYMORE CLEANUP? STAFF ARE YOU GETTING GOOD NOTES? I AM PRAYING FOR YOU, I REALLY AM, YOU ALL ARE ON THE PRAYER

LIST. >> WE ARE GOOD WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND NO LONGER HAVING THE AUTHORITY TO APPROVE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. WE CAN JUST HEAR THE VARIANCE

REQUESTS. >> SO HERE THE VARIANCE REQUEST AND FOR THE OTHER PERMITTED STRUCTURES. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN HERE.

WE CAN STILL PROVE A VARIANCE FOR ONE OF THE CRITERIA YOU HAVE IF THERE IS ANOTHER PERMITTED STRUCTURE THAT STILL SOUNDS LIKE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.

>> IF THERE IS SOMEONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND MAYBE THERE IS ANOTHER CARPORT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT NOT ONE ON THE SAME BLOCK FACE, LET ME ASK A QUESTION.

I WANT TO MEET ON THIS CRITERIA AND MY THREE NEIGHBORS ON THIS SIDE AND MY NEIGHBORS ON THE

SITE HAVE FLAT METAL CARPORTS. WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT THAT? >> YOU ARE UNDER THE NEW ORDINANCE AND THEREFORE IF YOU WANT THE VARIANCE FROM THOSE THINGS YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE

BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. >> I THINK WHAT I HEARD MIKE SAY, YOU HAVE TO GO TO STAFF

GET APPROVED. >> THE ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY QUESTION.

IF SOMEONE COMES IN WITH A PERMIT APPLICATION TO BUILD A CARPORT, STAFF WOULD AAPPROVE AND MAKE A DETERMINATION OF THE ROOFING MATERIAL OR THE BRICK OR THE STONE OR WHATEVER YOU ARE USING, THAT WOULD BE A JUDGMENT CALL IN TERMS OF IF IT IS COMPATIBLE, DOES IT LOOK

LIKE OTHER STUFF ON THE HOUSE. >> NOTWITHSTANDING OR IGNORING WHATEVER ONES ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S NOT A FACTOR. CORRECT OR NOT?

DID I HEAR THAT RIGHT? >> BASICALLY IF YOU ARE BUILDING SOMETHING THAT IS UNDER OUR NEW CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE AND YOUR NEIGHBORS HAVE NOT DONE THOSE THINGS, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO THE CURRENT CRITERIA BECAUSE YOU ARE CURRENTLY BUILDING, I WOULD SAY IT'S A LOT LIKE HOLDING CERTAIN BUSINESSES TO THE CURRENT BUILDING CODE BUT THEY BUILT 10 YEARS AGO AND IF THEY WERE DOING AND IN ADDITION, YOU WOULD HOLD ONTO THE NEW BUILDING CODE. IF YOU WANTED A VARIANCE FROM THAT COMPATIBILITY PIECE YOU

HAVE TO MAKE THAT VARIANCE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL. >> MY NEIGHBORS.

>> IF YOU MEET ALL OF THIS CRITERIA. SCHEMATICS OF WHAT YOU ARE ASKING IS THAT LANGUAGE BE SAID, IF THERE IS A LEGALLY PERMITTED CARDBOARD THAT COULD MEET THE SAME ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS.

>>>> WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THERE'S PROBABLY NOT MANY OF THOSE CASES MOST OF THE

NEIGHBORS HAVE NOT THESE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS. >> CORRECT.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THAT AND WE NEED TO ADD SOME LANGUAGE TO SAY THAT ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY COULD HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE CURRENT ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY COMPONENT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE CAN DO THAT.

>>>> WHAT ARE MOST OF THE CARDBOARD'S THEY ARE ASKING FOR?

[03:05:03]

THAT'S 95 PERCENT. >>>> THIS IS WHERE I HAVE BEEN.

AND HOW COMMUNITIES HANDLE STRUCTURES FROM THE FRONT BUILDING YARDS AND IN WHICH YOU ARE NOT ãA PERMANENT STRUCTURE TYPICALLY HOMES ARE BUILT THE LAYOUT OF THOSE AND IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A CARPORT THAT WOULD BE ENCROACHING INTO THAT FRONT YARD YOU CAN DO THAT AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IN THE MINDSET BUT BASICALLY YOU CAN'T BUILD WITHIN THAT MINDSET IN YOUR FRONT YARD AND THAT TYPICALLY WOULD TRIGGER A REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE AND AGAIN, YOU HAVE THE ELEVATED CRITERIA IN ORDER TO GET A VARIANCE. SO THAT'S WHERE BRUCE WAS COMING FROM AND IF YOU CAN'T DO IT, THAT'S WHY SETBACKS ARE RAINIER ZONING ORDINANCES FOR YOUR VERY PURPOSE OF PREVENTING ENCROACHMENT OF STRUCTURES WITHIN THAT FRONT BUILDING AREA AND THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO ALLOW THAT TO OCCUR OR DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A MORE DIRECT OR STRINGENT APPROACH IN NOT ALLOWING IT. JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T DO IT.

>> I AGREE WITH ALLOWING THAT. I THINK WE'RE IN TROUBLE WITH ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY,

IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO DO IT ANYWAY. >> IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT AND IMPROVING THE COMPONENTS OF THE HEIGHT AND THE LINK ã

>>>> THAT'S GOING TO FALL ONTO MIKE FOR THAT DECISION OF WHAT'S TRULY ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE OR NOT AND IF MIKE LOOKS AT THERE ARE THREE ON THE SIDE AND TWO ON THE SIDE MAYBE THAT ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS TO DO A FLAT

ONE. >> IN THE RESIDENTIAL ãIS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> IT WOULD APPEAR THE NEIGHBORING HOUSES ARE FURTHER EVIDENCE TO ARCHITECTURAL.

TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT IT MIGHT LOOK DOWN FOR ME BUT IT WOULD LOOK A LOT BETTER BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE'S HOUSE.

I AM OKAY WITH THAT. WE SET THE STANDARD. WE CAN GET THERE.

THERE IS A WAY TO DO THAT. >> THAT WOULD BE ADDING THE SHORT PARAGRAPH, THAT COULD BE ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE IF NEEDED. INTERIOR NEIGHBORING HOMES ARE YOUR BLOCK.

>> LET ME ASK STAFF I THINK HE IS GOING ãI GOT YOU, BRAD. >> I WALK IN THE FRONT DOOR AND I WANT A CARPORT. SO I ASKED THE STAFF CAN I BUILD THIS CARPORT THAT I WANT? I HAVE TO SAY I CAN'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTION NOW AND I CAN GO OUT AND TAKE PICTURES AND THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TELL YOU WHAT KIND OF CARPORT YOU CAN OR CANNOT BUILD.

EVERY GUY WHO WALKS IN THE FRONT DOOR GETTING A CARPORT REQUIRES AN INVESTIGATION ON

WHAT THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO BASED ON EXISTING CONDITIONS. >> CAN WE HAVE THE APPROVED

COPY PUT ON THE APPLICANT? >> PUT THAT BURDEN ON THEM AS THEY COME IN WANT FLAT ROOF YOU

HAVE TO PROVE ã >>>> IT HAS TO HAVE A 12 FOOT CLEARANCE IT NEEDS TO FIT

[03:10:01]

WITHIN THE ARCHITECTURAL FRAMEWORK BUT I UNDERSTAND I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE EVERYBODY GO

OUT ANDDO GOOGLE MAPS OR WHATEVER IT IS. >> FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT AGAIN THE ALEX PRINCIPAL, KEEPING IT SIMPLE, TALK THROUGH, THROWBACK TO ME WHAT

YOU JUST HEARD. >> THAT'S WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO DO.

IN ADDING WITH A FURTHER DEFINITION OF ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY, IT COULD MEAN THE SAME PITCH IN LIFE LINED OUT FOR YOU IN THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU HAVE THERE YOU CAN ALSO SAY THAT ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE CAN'T BE SUBJECTED TO THE POINT WHERE WE LOOK AT NEIGHBORING HOUSES TO USE EVIDENCE AND WHAT IT IS FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD FROM THE PERMIT IS STRUCTURES THAT ARE THERE. AND THAT FINAL DELINEATION, IF SOMEONE COMES IN AND DOES NOT GIVE STAFF THE EVIDENCE TO PROVE MY NEIGHBORS HAVE THESE AND WE CAN LOOK IT UP ONLINE AS WELL AND SEE WHAT PERMIT IS STRUCTURES ARE ALLOWED THERE AND IF THEY HAVE PERMITTED STRUCTURES WEEKEND LOOK EXACTLY HOW THEY WERE BUILT AS WELL. UP TO A POINT.

THERE ARE SOME THAT WILL BE A LOT OLDER THAN THE RECORDS THAT WE HAVE BUT BASICALLY IT'S ON THE APPLICANT TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT'S ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE IF THERE'S SOME SORT OF DISAGREEMENT AS TO WHAT ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE IS, WE CAN DEFER TO PLANNING DIRECTOR TO LOOK AT THE FACTS AND DETERMINE IF THAT STRUCTURE IS ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE OR NOT BASED OFF OF OUR

NEIGHBORS AND ALSO MATERIALS THEY MAY BE BUILDING WITH. >> WHAT YOU THINK, GUYS?

>> MY LAST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION. IS THIS STILL SIMPLIFYING THE PROCESS OR HAVE WE COMPOUNDED IT? LIKE WHAT FROM BRAD SAID, FROM THE TIME APPLICANT WALKS IN THE DOOR, HAVE WE MADE THIS EASIER OR HAVE WE MADE THIS HARDER? IS A SIMPLER OR MORE COMPLEX? I WANT TO HEAR IT. SOME COBIT FROM THE COMMISSIONERS.

>>>> YOU PROBABLY STILL HAVE TO DO ALL OF THE WORK. WITH WHAT WE HAVE DONE.

TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. STAFF SUSPECTED UP SAYING OKAY HERE IS THE AERIAL PHOTO HERE ARE 11 CARPORTS IN THE AREA. SO WE WERE DOING THAT KIND OF HOMEWORK ESSENTIALLY BEFORE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND WHEN SOMEONE WALKS IN THE DOOR WE DO SPEND A GENERAL AMOUNT OF TIME EXPLAINING THE PROCESS IT WHICH THEY NEED TO GO WE BRING IN BUILDING INSPECTORS PERMITTING TO AID WITH SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS.

>>>> I THINK THE SIMPLER ASPECT IS IF THEY DO EVERYTHING OR SHOW THE EVIDENCE

>>>> IT'S A SIMPLE AS GETTING A BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS >>>> THIS IS FASTER.

>> THIS IS QUICKER, THIS IS FASTER. ORDINARILY HOW LONG WOULD I HAVE TO WAIT WHEN I WALK THROUGH THE DOOR, HOW LONG WOULD I HAVE TO WAIT?

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE TIME FRAME IF YOU CAME IN THE DAY OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WHICH IS THE 14TH, IF YOU CAME IN ON THE 14TH YOU ARE NOT MEETING THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TIMEFRAME BUT IF YOU CAME IN FOUR DAYS BEFORE YOU STILL DID NOT MEET THAT TIMEFRAME.

>> THEY WOULD ONLY NEED TO GO IN FRONT OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS IF THEY NEEDED A

VARIANCE. >> AS OF RIGHT NOW IF YOU NEEDED A CARPORT AND YOU CAME IN TODAY AND HE SAID I NEEDED CARPORT AND YOU DON'T MEET THOSE FRONT SETBACKS.

OKAY SPECIAL EXEMPTION YOU WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE 14TH OF JANUARY BUT THE

FOLLOWING MONTH OF FEBRUARY. >> AND THE WAY WE HAVE BEEN IN THE VEIN OF PROPOSING, THEY

[03:15:07]

WOULD ONLY ACCLIMATE A MONTH IF THEY HAD A VARIANCE. >>.

THAT PARTICULAR YES. I HAVE TO HAVE THIS OR ELSE. THAT WOULD BE ON THEM TO WANT TO WAIT. A LOT OF PEOPLE WHEN WE SAY, AMEND YOUR CARPORT YOU WOULD MEET THOSE CRITERIA WERE WE WOULD SAY YES. IF THEY ARE OFF A FOOT OR TWO YOU WOULD SAY DON'T GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF YOU JUST BUILD THIS.

SO IT'S UP TO THAT PERSON AT THAT POINT IN TIME, DO I WANT TO SPEND THE $400 TO ARGUE MY CASE AND SAY I DO HAVE SOMETHING CRAZY HAPPENING WITH MY FRONT YARD.

>> WHAT IS EVERYONE ELSE THINKING? >> THE ONLY THING IS,

>> IF IT GOES TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IT WOULD GO TO >>. IF YOU SAID THE FINAL SAY IS MIKE AND MIKE SAYS NO AND THEY DECIDE THEY WANT TO TAKE IT FURTHER SOMETIMES THERE'S AN

APPEAL PROCESS TO CITY COUNCIL. >> FROM MIKE'S OFFICE TO THE CITY COUNCIL?

IS THAT WHERE IT GOES? >>.

ZONING. >> OKAY, GOOD. THERE IS A WAY THEY HAVE A

SECOND CHANCE. >> IF WE ARE SAYING THEY GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND GET DENIED THE VARIANCE, THEY WOULD GO TO COURT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING.

I'M SORRY. IF WE WERE IN BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND THEY GET A

DENIAL. >> WHERE DID THEY GO AFTER HE SAYS NO?

>> THEY CAN APPEAL TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. >> IT CREATES ANOTHER AVENUE.

>> OKAY. >> AS FAR AS STAFF GOES, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WE DO THAT ARE VERY TINY DETAILS THAT GO INTO MAKING THE DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE IN PERMITTING AT THINGS LIKE THAT. I DON'T WANT TO DISCOURAGE THE COMMISSIONERS FROM MAKING ANY DECISION BASED OFF OF HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST FOR STAFF BECAUSE WE GET THE CRITERIA DOWN IT'S A MATTER OF GOING DOES IT MEET THIS, DOES IT MEET THIS? AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WANTING LIKE YOU SAID BEFORE, BRAD, MEETING WITH THE INTENT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL READ THAT IN ADVANCE AND SAY I HAVE TO HAVE THIS BUT A LOT OF TIMES WE SPEND TIME EXPLAINING TO OUR

CITIZENS WHAT EXACTLY WE MEAN BY THE CRITERIA. >> IN MY COMMENTS EARLIER WERE FROM AN ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT. I HAVE BEEN AND SEEN A LOT OF CASES WERE UNDERMANNED UNDER STAFF. STAFF DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES.

SO MY QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN FROM AN ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT. I APPRECIATE THE ANSWERS I HAVE

BEEN GIVEN. ANY OTHER PARTS OF THIS? >> IT READS THE EFFECTIVE CARPORT MUST BE SIMILAR IN COLOR COMPOSITION TO THE RESIDENT BUILDING.

MADE OF WOOD OR METAL WRAPPED IN WOOD. AND >> SHALL BE MADE OF WOOD OR.

ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL ON THESE. YOU MADE THE POINT IF EVERYBODY ON EITHER SIDE OF ME HAS METAL POSTS AND A METAL ROOF WITH METAL EXPOSED I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.

ALL YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IS MATCH WITH THE APPROVED PERMITTED STRUCTURE ON EITHER

SIDE OF YOU. >>.

HAD WRITTEN DOWN WE WERE GOING TO DO AWAY WITH THAT PIECE OF THE COMPATIBILITY SUCH AS THE

BRICK AND THE STONE AND MAINLY KEEP PITCH AND ROOF. >> IT SAYS PITCH OR SHAPE OF

[03:20:01]

THE ROOF MUST BE INTEGRATED WITH OR CONSISTENT WITH.

THE RESIDENTIAL BUILDING FOR WHICH THE CARPORT WILL COVER. AS THE ROOF LINE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND ãHAD SAID WE HAD DONE AWAY WITH MAKING THE ROOF COMPOSITION THE SAME AS A ROOF ON THE HOUSE BUT.

SHINGLE ROOF. >> I DON'T KNOW, KELLY, IS THAT SUBJECTIVE ENOUGH FOR STAFF I GUESS TO NOT HAVE TO MAKE YOUR SHINGLES OVER ãI KNOW THAT WE WERE GOING OVER THAT LINE BY

LINE. >> WHAT WOULD YOU WANT.

AND ALL? >> TAKE OUT THE PORTION IN WHICH IT SAYS IT HAS TO BE A SIMILAR COMPOSITION TO THE MATERIALS MADE FROM THE HOUSE AND MAKE IT MORE OR LESS CARPORT OF COLOR. DO YOU WANT TO GO AS FAR AS.

SAYS TO ME, IT'S GOT TO BE IN THE SAME PITCH AND THEY WOULD ROOF OR SHINGLE AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A WOOD POST AND WRAPPED IN BRICK OR METAL POST WRAPPED IN BRICK AND BRICK ON THE HOUSE.

THAT'S WHAT THIS SAYS. >> WE DON'T HAVE TO BE THAT SPECIFIC.

>> THIS IS A DRAFT DOCUMENT WE WILL BE COMING BACK WITH A MORE REFINED DOCUMENT BASED ON YOUR

GUIDANCE. >> WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE FOR IT TO SAY? HOW WOULD YOU GET AROUND THE SPECIFICITY THE YOU ARE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH?

>> OKAY DO WE WANT TO ALLOW A METAL ROOF AND.

THE REAL QUESTION. INSTEAD OF FASCIA BOARDS IN MOST OF THESE CARPORTS ARE.

DEFINITION, WHAT IS THE MINIMUM COMPATIBILITY TO BE WANT THE DEFINITION FOR THE CARPORT SO WAS THE MINIMUM COMPATIBILITY STANDARD THAT WE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH.

>> CORRECT. >> WE CAN WRITE THOSE IN.

>>>> I'M COMFORTABLE FOR A FLAT METAL ROOF. >> THEY HAVE SAID AS LONG AS THE NEIGHBORS ARE THE SAME, THE FLAT METAL ROOF OR WHATEVER LEVEL THAT THEY HAVE THEIR CARPORTS DONE THEN, THE ONES WE HAVE HERE ARE MORE OR LESS WHAT STAFF THOUGHT WAS THE DIRECTION IN WHICH THE COMMISSION WANTED US TO GO THESE ARE CLEARLY INTEGRATED WITH THE PROPERTY

AND NOT SOME OF THESE ARE OFF OF PRETTY BUSY STREETS. >> THE ONLY ISSUE WITH THESE IS THAT THEY DON'T NECESSARILY ADDRESS THE 75 PERCENT OF THE FLAT METAL ROOFS.

>> THIS WAS THE DIRECTION IT'S KIND OF WHERE WE THOUGHT WE WERE GOING AND IF WE ARE NOT.

IT COULD BE FACTORS THAT ARE CONSIDERED IN DETERMINING ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY OR THE CURRENT INTEGRATION WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD SIMILAR HOMES. RATHER THAN BE EVERY I KNOW

THAT CREATE SOME SUBJECTIVITY IN REGARDS TO THE CITY EMPLOYEES >> ITS GUIDELINES

RATHER THAN CRITERIA. >> EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD WILL BE DIFFERENT IN EVERY STREET WILL

BE DIFFERENT BUT MY STREET HAS NOW DOUBLED IN SIZE. >> SO MAYBE SETTING SOME

GUIDELINES. >>>> I UNDERSTAND VERY >> EVEN THE IDEA I HAVE BEEN WRESTLING WITH IN MY MIND. I HATE TO SAY ANYTHING AT THIS POINT AND THIS IS PARTLY TO SEE WHAT MIKE THINKS ABOUT ABOUT THE IDEA OF COMPARING THE APPLICANT TO SAVE MY NEIGHBORS. HOW MANY ARE WE INCLUDING? IT GETS TO BE SUBJECTIVE.

AT SOME POINT IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE STANDARDS. THERE IS SOME DISCRETION BUT IF

[03:25:01]

THEY ARE SO BROAD AND YOU INCLUDE SO MANY FACTORS WITH REGARD TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD IT PUTS A STAFF PERSON IT WILL BE VERY SUBJECTIVE IT'S EASY FOR ONE PERSON TO SAY YOU DID THIS FOR THEM. IT MIGHT MAKE A DIFFICULT POSITION FOR STAFF SOME PARAMETERS ARE BETTER THAN HAVING THEM SO BROAD AND WITH REGARD TO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE HOUSE THEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? AND EVEN THINKING ABOUT OVERLAY ZONES WHERE ãMIGHT BE REQUIRED IN AN OVERLAY ZONE.

WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF STAFF BEING FORCED TO MAKE A DECISION WOULD YOU HAVE AN

ISSUE WITH THAT? >> SIMPLE, CLEAR AND CONCISE GUIDELINES.

DON'T FORGET ONE OF THE FACTORS GOING INTO THIS IS HELPED IMPROVE THE AESTHETICS OF OUR COMMUNITY SO HOPEFULLY THESE FOLKS WHO HAVE THE FLAT ROOF YOU END UP HAVING IMPROVEMENTS TO CARPORTS. WE HAVE A LOT AROUND HIM AND MOST ARE NOT ATTRACTIVE AND BEING A DRIVEWAY OR YARD I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING. I WOULD SHY AWAY FROM LOOKING AT OTHER PROPERTIES. SURE WE COULD LOOK SUBJECTIVELY AT THE AREA IN GENERAL TO DETERMINE IF A PARTICULAR ARCHITECTURAL SCHEME PROPOSED FOR A CARPORT WOULD GENERALLY BLEND IN, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE A DETERMINING FACTOR IN THE APPROVAL PROCESS. I THINK IN THE ORDINANCE WE SHOULD HAVE STANDARDS TO GO BY IT'S GOING TO BE SUBJECTIVE ANYWAY. WHEREBY YOU WILL BLOCK OUT THE TYPES OF BUILDING MATERIALS AND IF IT'S GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE HOME AND IF IT IS WE COULD SIGN OFF ON IT AND THEY CAN GO GET A BUILDING PERMIT. THAT'S PRETTY SIMPLE, IN MY

MIND. >> IF WE STOPPED AT PARAGRAPH RIGHT THERE AND.

OFF BASICALLY IN THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE IT, THAT SAYS THE COMPOSITION HAS TO LOOK LIKE

THE HOUSE. >> OR SOMEONE WANTED TO DO A METAL CARPORT THEY COULD HAVE METAL FRAMING THAT COULD PUT THE PITCH ON IT AND THAT ALLOWS IT TO LOOK A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE STRUCTURE BUT HAVE A VERY SIMPLE OVERALL CARPORT THAT DOESN'T HAVE MATCHING COLOR OR MATCHING MATERIAL IT'S NOT EXACTLY FLAT SO YOU ARE ALLOWING THEM A PRETTY SIMPLE

STRUCTURE. >>>> THE KEYWORD IS SIMILAR.

SIMILAR IN COLOR AND COMPOSITION SUITABLE ENOUGH TO ALLOW THEM TO GO TO A METAL

ROOF IF THEY HAVE A COMPOSITION SHINGLE ROOF ON THEIR HOUSE? >> IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSION AND IN ALL HONESTY AFTER WE COME TO SOMETHING AND BRING IT BACK TO

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.